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Post by 1D3chan on Feb 20, 2016 0:07:40 GMT -6
How do you tell what can/can't deep strike? I am looking at the SM codex, and none of the datasheets have it as a special rule. So it's a little confusing because it's listed in different places. For SM: 1) Terminator *Armour* confers Deep Strike, but this is actually stated in the Appendix/Armory section of the SM Codex where it describes the rules for Terminator Armour specifically. Therefore then, anything with Terminator Armour in your army, like Terminators but not limited to them, can Deep Strike. 2) Drop Pods are Dedicated Transports that must DS, this happens to be in their Data Sheet / Special Rules in the SM Codex (Rule is just called 'Drop Pod Assault' I think). Many units in your codex can be given these as an upgrade/option and therefore the ability to DS. Dreads, Centurions...it pretty much allows most of your codex to DS 3) All Jump Infantry and Jet Pack Infantry in the whole game can Deep Strike, but this fact is listed in the Rule Book, not the SM Codex. So anytime you give a model in your army an item that changes its unit type from infantry to Jump or Jet Pack Infantry, or a unit already counts as this (eg Assault Squads) they have DS ...I can see why you'd be confused, it's all over the place. I don't play the army but I think that actually might cover it for you.
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Post by 1D3chan on Feb 20, 2016 0:10:04 GMT -6
Wait so can I thunderblitz and Fire....I lost track Yes
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Post by Asyrean on Feb 23, 2016 11:14:21 GMT -6
Hey guys, regarding allies (which we have established are dumb), how does it work sharing transports? (carpooling?). I think I can answer this, but just want to make sure whether or not my understanding is correct. Battle Brothers can share transports I know, but can they deploy in each others transports? I just did a quick thumbing through of the BRB, and without digging further, I noticed that it specifically says allies can embark on each others transports. So, focusing on the word "embark," would that mean you could have the allies in a drop pod in deep strike reserve? Or would a transport have to be on the table and the ally on the table and THEN they could embark?
In other words, I'm thinking about my slow moving new Skitarii/Cult Mech and thinking about using them with my Ultramarines. Could I put them in my Ultramarine's drop pods? Given that I bought the drop pod as a fast attack and not a dedicated transport, obviously.
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Post by jefferestinpeace on Feb 23, 2016 11:24:53 GMT -6
Skitarii in drop pods is one of the most competitive lists out there right now. Just make sure you're putting them in the FA slot Drop Pods, not the Dedicated Transport ones.
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Post by 1D3chan on Feb 23, 2016 13:25:02 GMT -6
Hey guys, regarding allies (which we have established are dumb), how does it work sharing transports? (carpooling?). I think I can answer this, but just want to make sure whether or not my understanding is correct. Battle Brothers can share transports I know, but can they deploy in each others transports? I just did a quick thumbing through of the BRB, and without digging further, I noticed that it specifically says allies can embark on each others transports. So, focusing on the word "embark," would that mean you could have the allies in a drop pod in deep strike reserve? Or would a transport have to be on the table and the ally on the table and THEN they could embark? In other words, I'm thinking about my slow moving new Skitarii/Cult Mech and thinking about using them with my Ultramarines. Could I put them in my Ultramarine's drop pods? Given that I bought the drop pod as a fast attack and not a dedicated transport, obviously. Yes, you can share transports with Battle Brothers and you can begin the game in them. As Jeff (Rest in Peace, Respect, RIP, God Bless) said, it's one of the most powerful "Combo's" because you're taking what one army lacks (mobility for Ad Mech) and supplementing it with what another army has (Space Marine Vehicles). The reason people say "Allies are Dumb" is because you can effectively patch up holes that are "supposed" to be there for a certain faction, which means instead of working around it, you're just bypassing the challenge. Tau and Eldar don't have "Open Topped" Vehicles, which allow the unit inside to shoot at full BS while still embarked and while the vehicle can jink for a 4+ or 3+ cover save. Presumably, at one point in time they were purposefully not given these in their codices because their guns are too strong. They can now, however, ally with Dark Eldar who have loads of these types of vehicles and have the best of both worlds, and this is considered an extremely competitive build or combo. This is one way GW has thrown balance out the window in favor of just selling more units and models. (Note Eldar can do this, Tau cannot, I don't know about their allies) It's up to the personal player if this is something you'd like to do and your opponent if it's something they like to play against. Far be it for me to say what's competitive or not, or sportsmanlike or not. In our group, people are willing to give things a good go. For what it's worth, I think it'd be a great way for you to learn to at least try those combo's and then decide if that's how you want to play them moving forward. Against an upper tier codex, I say go for it. Against the resident fictional Ork player, maybe not.
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Post by Asyrean on Feb 23, 2016 15:02:18 GMT -6
Thanks guys, for the confirmation on allies and transport. Certainly I'm going to keep this in mind for future list building possibilities.
I can totally see the point regarding allies that you guys mentioned. It's an interesting issue. On one side, (to use my army as an example) you could totally see Ultramarines, Admech and an Imperial Knight taking the field at the same time. It's a very fluffy combination and you see that kind of thing in the fluff a lot. Also, in terms of this scenario, there is a bit of a tax to do this, right? I mean, say my ultimate goal was to get some Rust Stalkers in a drop pod (not sure if they're bulky or not, just picking them off the top of my head), then you'll have to take a drop pod in a fast attack slot, and to do that, you're obligated to take 1 HQ and 2 troops just to get the drop pod. Even though this point value is relatively small, it's still a 205 point tax just to get a 35 point drop pod. So that in and of itself is a limiting factor. (Well, if Skitarii was the primary detachment with an allied space marine faction, you could nix one of the tact squads and only pay a tax of 135pts. I guess that's not that bad... or even cheaper if you were using scouts... Ok, I'm starting to see a trend here...)
Conversely, I can also see the argument you mentioned when folks are using allies to game the system. I guess for me the line would be whether the combination of the armies were "fluffy" or not. Although since Armies of the Imperium are the majority of the armies in the game, maybe this isn't the best line to draw.
Ok, last (probably) allies question. Are there any rules that limit the number of allies you can have on the table? I know in the rules it says there's no limit to the number of detachments that you can field. So, I guess a better way to phrase the question is; Is there any limit to the number of factions that can be fielded at a time?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 23, 2016 15:15:58 GMT -6
Thanks guys, for the confirmation on allies and transport. Certainly I'm going to keep this in mind for future list building possibilities. I can totally see the point regarding allies that you guys mentioned. It's an interesting issue. On one side, (to use my army as an example) you could totally see Ultramarines, Admech and an Imperial Knight taking the field at the same time. It's a very fluffy combination and you see that kind of thing in the fluff a lot. Also, in terms of this scenario, there is a bit of a tax to do this, right? I mean, say my ultimate goal was to get some Rust Stalkers in a drop pod (not sure if they're bulky or not, just picking them off the top of my head), then you'll have to take a drop pod in a fast attack slot, and to do that, you're obligated to take 1 HQ and 2 troops just to get the drop pod. Even though this point value is relatively small, it's still a 205 point tax just to get a 35 point drop pod. So that in and of itself is a limiting factor. (Well, if Skitarii was the primary detachment with an allied space marine faction, you could nix one of the tact squads and only pay a tax of 135pts. I guess that's not that bad... or even cheaper if you were using scouts... Ok, I'm starting to see a trend here...) Conversely, I can also see the argument you mentioned when folks are using allies to game the system. I guess for me the line would be whether the combination of the armies were "fluffy" or not. Although since Armies of the Imperium are the majority of the armies in the game, maybe this isn't the best line to draw. Ok, last (probably) allies question. Are there any rules that limit the number of allies you can have on the table? I know in the rules it says there's no limit to the number of detachments that you can field. So, I guess a better way to phrase the question is; Is there any limit to the number of factions that can be fielded at a time? Per the official rules there is no limit. That said however many tournaments/events limit the number of detatchments. I wouldn't worry about it in friendly games though.
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Post by Asyrean on Feb 23, 2016 15:18:19 GMT -6
Hi Will,
That was my understanding. I've never played in a tournament, but I thought I'd heard that some tournaments have limits on the number of allies, or the number of times you can repeat a detachment, etc. (To keep folks from spamming something, for example.)
Anyway, just wanted to make sure there wasn't anything specifically in the rules. I'm playing a game this weekend and I might have 4 codex's represented on my side of the table. Not sure if it's a good idea or not, but something I want to try and see how it shakes out. Anyway, thanks for the clarity.
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Post by 1D3chan on Feb 23, 2016 16:30:16 GMT -6
Hi Will, That was my understanding. I've never played in a tournament, but I thought I'd heard that some tournaments have limits on the number of allies, or the number of times you can repeat a detachment, etc. (To keep folks from spamming something, for example.) Anyway, just wanted to make sure there wasn't anything specifically in the rules. I'm playing a game this weekend and I might have 4 codex's represented on my side of the table. Not sure if it's a good idea or not, but something I want to try and see how it shakes out. Anyway, thanks for the clarity. I'm looking forward to playing your Imperial Alliance, whatever form it takes. You now have tons and tons of options and I'm sure you'll have a great time. I have actually never seen RustStalkers in Drop Pods...They infiltrate and have scout IIRC, they also add an extra 3" to their runs and charges. tl;dr you can pretty much get them in the face of the enemy turn 1 or 2 without a drop pod. You want to use a drop pod to unload some short range volley of death, like Jeff said I think some Skitarii get like 3 shots each and you can use Canticles to give them like BS 6 for a turn. Super nasty!
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Post by Asyrean on Feb 23, 2016 17:07:41 GMT -6
Yah, the Rust Stalkers were just the first CC unit that popped in my mind. Didn't really consider whether the drop pod was a GOOD idea (or necessary?) or not. But that is one thing with the Skitarii, they maybe foot slogging it, but at least their sprinting. Cult Mechanicus seems to be another story though.
Anyway, I like that. Imperial Alliance. Maybe that's what I'll say my army is going forward. I guess, others might point out that "Imperial Alliance" is just another way of saying "Grown Man spending too much money on plastic toys" though...
Eh, To-may-toes, To-mah-toes.
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doubleback
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Post by doubleback on Feb 24, 2016 14:21:05 GMT -6
BUT WHO WILL ALLY WITH NECRONS??
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Post by Russell on Feb 24, 2016 14:28:40 GMT -6
Blood Angels, bro
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doubleback
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Post by doubleback on Feb 24, 2016 14:30:30 GMT -6
God bless those little insane Angels
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doubleback
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Post by doubleback on Feb 24, 2016 22:07:54 GMT -6
Ok here is a weird one....could an IC with a jet pack join a group a troops with jump packs without slowing them down? The rules seem to indicate that unless the whole unit "jumps" no one can jump, but a jet pack seems capable of the exact same movements.
Or for those of you familiar with Necrons....Can a D-lord roll with Praetorians?
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doubleback
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Post by doubleback on Feb 24, 2016 22:08:43 GMT -6
I'm specifically asking in terms of a jump assault with the hammer
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