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Post by Nick P on Feb 19, 2016 9:19:29 GMT -6
Yup, one of the fundamental rules of 40k my friend. If the infantry guy just got to move 12" without a bike, then why would anyone ever pay the points? And if he moved 6" but the bikes moved 12", then they wouldn't be in coherency, so what's the point of putting him in there?
It's also a balancing factor for some filthy combos; Necrons in 6th used to put destroyer lords in units of wraiths to tank wounds, since the destroyer was jump infantry. A common build was 2 units of 6 wraiths, with a tanked up destroyer lord in each. They would move 12" a turn, and charge turn 2, and absolutely decimate whatever they hit.
In 7th ed, destroyer lords (and destroyers in general) are classed as jet-packs, not jump-packs. So they can only move 6", meaning that you either abandon that combo since the movement speed was a key part of it, or surrender yourself to only moving your 700 point deathstar unit(s) 6" per turn.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 19, 2016 9:31:29 GMT -6
Back to that question about a unit composed of different types, do they really ALL move as slow as the slowest? So if a bike squad has 1 independent character without a bike, they all are limited to 6 inch move?? What good friends, walking their bikes so Jim the librarian who can't afford one can hang out. I'm 90% certain that this is not the case in 7th edition. It was in 6th, however, I believe it was changed with the editions. Like all of my rules interpretations this is off the cuff and sans CRB. I'm basing it almost wholly upon two things: 1.) The "Superfriends" (I.E. the T-Wolves, Bikes, Azrael, Fenrisian Wolves) deathstar is based upon the idea that you can string azrael along on foot behind the deathstar to gain his benefits. 2.) Movement is no longer squad based in 7th, its now model based. I.E. if a heavy weapon doesn't move it can still fire, that wasn't the case in previous editions where if the squad moved the weapon could not fire. Of course models must still maintain coherency, but as far as I know you move each model according to its unit type (bikes = 12", Infantry = 6", ect). As such a squad of bikes with a chaplain attached would work as follows: All the bikes can move upto 12", the chaplain can move upto 6", and all models must end their movement within 2" of another model from the squad.
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Post by OneEyeRob on Feb 19, 2016 9:41:45 GMT -6
Well, any "Superfriends" Dark Angels list uses Sammael, or an (Interrogator) Chaplain on a Bike, not Azrael since he can't be used with the Ravenwing Strike Force Detachment. Both of those guys are on a bike or a jetbike.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 19, 2016 9:52:17 GMT -6
Well, any "Superfriends" Dark Angels list uses Sammael, or an (Interrogator) Chaplain on a Bike, not Azrael since he can't be used with the Ravenwing Strike Force Detachment. Both of those guys are on a bike or a jetbike. I present to you Aaron Aelong's Superfriends list from the LVO 2016 You take azrael because he can choose his Warlord Trait each game, so he can pick Rapid Manoeuvre (Sammael’s trait), or Furious Charge, while also confering 4++ to the whole squad (3++ with Sanctuary), and +1 to Seize the Initiative. He's a huge force multiplier.
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Post by Joelercoaster on Feb 19, 2016 10:44:46 GMT -6
FWIW, I think it's Calvary that have HoW built in, now, rather than Jump infantry.
On the movement factor, it used to be you'd slow the whole unit down, but now as long as you end in coherency, you're fine (so a faster model can reposition more effectively, etc, still). On the same tack, if an individual model does not move, it counts as not moving (instead of if 1 model moves, the unit counts as moving). Helpful for if the heavy weapon guy wants to pop off a shot while the pleebs move around to protect him from incoming fire.
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Post by OneEyeRob on Feb 19, 2016 11:04:30 GMT -6
Will, I see that. And saw his list, but still have not been able to find how exactly he is running him alongside his Dark Angel Command Squad, unless he is quite literally being strung along. He just couldn't keep up with the bike squad.
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Post by Nick P on Feb 19, 2016 11:05:48 GMT -6
I'm 90% certain that this is not the case in 7th edition. Shit that's kinda huge if true, also means I might have to start throwing my Destroyer Lord back into my Wraith units!
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Post by Russell on Feb 19, 2016 11:07:23 GMT -6
that stupid superfriends list holy shit allies are so fucking dumb
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Post by Nick P on Feb 19, 2016 11:07:48 GMT -6
Will, I see that. And saw his list, but still have not been able to find how exactly he is running him alongside his Dark Angel Command Squad, unless he is quite literally being strung along. He just couldn't keep up with the bike squad. Well yeah, the bikes wouldn't be able to move their full 12" each turn, they'd only be able to move 8" or so in order to make sure Azrael is at least within 2" to keep unit coherency.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 19, 2016 11:16:14 GMT -6
Will, I see that. And saw his list, but still have not been able to find how exactly he is running him alongside his Dark Angel Command Squad, unless he is quite literally being strung along. He just couldn't keep up with the bike squad. Well yeah, the bikes wouldn't be able to move their full 12" each turn, they'd only be able to move 8" or so in order to make sure Azrael is at least within 2" to keep unit coherency. Nope, that's what the dogs are for. the Fenrisian wolves attached to the IC space wolf characters join the squad. So its a bunch of bikes, dogs, and Azrael. The dogs linger behind making a line that leads to Azrael while the command bikes, space wolf ics, and librarians speed ahead. Its only designed to last 2 turns, but by that time the deathstar is in combat, which means that azreal all the way in the back technically is as well. Perhaps I should clarify that I in no way approve of what the superfriends nonsense abuses, it was just something I had seen happen at a high level event thus leading me to believe it worked that way. Also you are 100% correct Russell, allies are fucking dumb.
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Post by Nick P on Feb 19, 2016 11:26:51 GMT -6
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Post by OneEyeRob on Feb 19, 2016 11:45:01 GMT -6
Azrael flying V! Mighty Ducks!!!
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Post by Joelercoaster on Feb 19, 2016 12:03:32 GMT -6
Having mad movement that is "slowed" by a walking character also allows you ridiculous charge dynamics - the walker may be stuck moving up the middle 6" a turn, but the rest of the crew can alter easily to one side or the other (or run straight ahead) while the rest of the team maintains coherency as above. If you use the max 2" between models, it really doesn't take many to string something pretty far forward to the main blob (just consider what a 30-body Gaunt brood can actually cover, if spread to full capacity).
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doubleback
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Post by doubleback on Feb 19, 2016 17:24:10 GMT -6
Wait so can I thunderblitz and Fire....I lost track
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Post by Kiwi Doug on Feb 19, 2016 18:26:09 GMT -6
How do you tell what can/can't deep strike? I am looking at the SM codex, and none of the datasheets have it as a special rule.
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