|
Post by Eric formerly Eric on Feb 8, 2018 8:34:16 GMT -6
Very badly haha. Roger did a great job covering his deployment zone in cultists, and then he got first turn, in which he covered the rest of the map in deep strikers. Killed the hierodule turn 1. I basically had no where to bring the trygon bombs. Honestly, this was my first game of 8th where somebody went all in on the deep-striker denial strategy and it was a thorough whooping. I also made the mistake of not spreading out in my own deployment zone. If the tournament was today, I'd be tempted to scrap the whole thing and go with no trygons. But the best quick fix would be to replace the hierodule with hive guard, an exocrine and 3 mucolid spores.
|
|
|
Post by Eric formerly Eric on Feb 8, 2018 8:39:41 GMT -6
Also in contention are a malanthrope and old one eye.
I need to foresee how target priority would change without the dule. He was roger's big target of t1 (and he did kill roger's warlord who foolishly charged him).
I guess 22 t8 wounds is pretty tough to replace. Roger took essentially needed 280 points and 6 command points to bring him down.
|
|
|
Post by Nick P on Feb 8, 2018 9:08:53 GMT -6
Yeah man that's rough, his list sounds like a hard counter to deep strike which is basically what your list prided itself on - I feel like for the tournament, being a bit more balanced will be really helpful. Getting some big termagant blobs in there for 120 points to prevent enemy deep strikers, and to try to clear out enemy models to give you room to deep strike, could be a good add. Hive guard are dope as well, I'm all in on them haha
|
|
|
Post by Eric formerly Eric on Feb 8, 2018 9:37:00 GMT -6
Yeah haha true. Normally my lists have a solid firebase, but this one tried to have everyone benefit from behemoths rerolling charges.
I'm actually thinking of mostly using mucolids (or maybe spore mines) as denial units. They are so damn cheap and can be easily hidden behind ruins, but that's an 18" bubble of ds denial.
Plus I take so many hqs, it's practically a free outrider detachment.
Edit: This was also my first time trying 2 trygons and boy do they require a lot of space.
|
|
|
Post by rogerspacem on Feb 8, 2018 9:54:59 GMT -6
I stomped him! Daemons and renegades! But seriously it was a good experience with Eric. His list has potential but it doesn't have good board control. In our game last night, granted I had first turn, but its one of those first turn that both sides didn't have a lot going on. I had nurglings spread out with my cultists to deny drops getting too close, while I didn't really have range with my vincators (the T8 tank with 24" weapon). Still I got the first turn and dropped my blood letter bomb and after to being forced to burn CP to attack again the blood letters finished out his Hern...lord of war (which idiotically I threw my warlord in there to only get smashed to the ground by his big monster) . The problem being is I had so many little other drops that came down that first turn that it denied Eric even more for his drops putting them in positions that were either too far from the fight or ineffective. Then turn two was even worse Because I dropped the last the of my drops and Eric seriously just had his back corner. Everyone else he had were spread out too far from one another that my flamers were just picking them off one by one. Still even if Eric had first turn I wouldn't doubt he would have killed off my nurglings and cultist screen pretty fast but given he didn't have much shooting to soften the screen, it would taken him about two turns (unless I screwed up my turn 2 positioning) to eat through my screen. At that point my drops would have come from behind him and put him in a pinccer. So overall as Eric said last night his list does have killing potential but if he doesn't have board control his loses A LOT of effectiveness from his assaulting squads and devil gaunts. Eric good game bro. Just if you need more practicing let me know and I'll try to run a different style list you might encounter in a tournament scene.
|
|
|
Post by rogerspacem on Feb 8, 2018 9:56:06 GMT -6
Very badly haha. Roger did a great job covering his deployment zone in cultists, and then he got first turn, in which he covered the rest of the map in deep strikers. Killed the hierodule turn 1. I basically had no where to bring the trygon bombs. Honestly, this was my first game of 8th where somebody went all in on the deep-striker denial strategy and it was a thorough whooping. I also made the mistake of not spreading out in my own deployment zone. If the tournament was today, I'd be tempted to scrap the whole thing and go with no trygons. But the best quick fix would be to replace the hierodule with hive guard, an exocrine and 3 mucolid spores. Damn beat me to the punch. :-D
|
|
|
Post by Eric formerly Eric on Feb 8, 2018 10:13:44 GMT -6
Yeah, i don't have anything that can infiltrate like the nurglings, but at least spore mines can take up territory in my own zone.
I don't want to spend too much on chaff/denial, since I won't need it against every army.
But the big question I have to answer is how quickly do I want to get in the enemy's face t1 vs playing back more defensively. In terms of units, it's weighing swarmlord and trygons against more shooting/malanthrope.
|
|
|
Post by rogerspacem on Feb 8, 2018 10:37:10 GMT -6
It's a tricky balance but liked Nick said you need a balance. In our game you didn't have any screens so if your nids were more spread out that turn one I think I could have tabled you. Not in the sense of knocking off all of your models but denying your drops to help your giant monsters from the blob of letters and flamers. I had total board control.
So for your next game don't go too defensively but as you suggested bring a few spores to block off the areas your previous units might need to be support. Even if they get killed off in a second it buys you an extra turn how to counter the drop or prevents flanking which can force you to split Fire.
|
|
|
Post by Eric formerly Eric on Feb 8, 2018 11:45:00 GMT -6
Ok so I made a slight tweak to that list. Replaced the carnifex with a biovore, 3 mucolids, and 3 more stealers. Also switched the miasma cannon out for BL devourers.
This gives me 3 spores for area denial, with a biovore that can pump out additional area denial spores.
|
|
|
Post by rogerspacem on Feb 8, 2018 13:33:18 GMT -6
OK that seems better. Spores to block, biobore to just shoot around/hold back field objective, and 3 more Stealers.
I take it the stealers are being added to the ones in reserves?
|
|
|
Post by Eric formerly Eric on Feb 8, 2018 13:42:53 GMT -6
Yeah. My default is 16 and 16, but I ran out of points for our game
|
|
|
Post by Eric formerly Eric on Feb 14, 2018 11:12:53 GMT -6
Ok so I have a couple lists im choosing between. The consistent units in all of them are: Flyrant Neurothrope Trygon 3 mucolids 2x 16 genestealers Bunch of devilgaunts. Which puts me at around 1200 pointd.
So the choices I am making boil down to: What kind of range/anti tank do I want? -3 hive guard, 144 pts -exocrine, 216 -carnifexes with heavy venom cannons, about 126 each -old one eye (+ melee fexes?), 200 pts -hierodule, 410
How do I support the genestealers/anti-tank? -Swarmlord for the hive commander move, 300 -trygon#2 for the deep strike, 170 -malanthrope to shroud them in -1 to hit, 140 -broodlord for the hitting buff 165 -another neurothrope, 70
I also tested a mawloc last weekend and it did nothing all game.
|
|
|
Post by Nick P on Feb 14, 2018 12:59:55 GMT -6
I think what makes the mawloc so effective is that it can come in RIGHT next to an enemy unit, so even if they are playing the board control game and preventing deep strikes within 9", I can almost guarantee they are leaving enough space for a mawloc to get in there. If you have 2 or 3 of them popping up, they can clear out a lot of board area to make room for your other deep strikers in turn 2 or 3 to regain board control. I think they might end up being a very useful model not for damage output but just for playing the movement phase and countering board control armies - or at least making them behave differently to throw them off.
|
|
|
Post by Eric formerly Eric on Feb 14, 2018 13:15:29 GMT -6
Fair point. I think I was hoping that they would also be able to tie up some shooters and act as a distraction, but my opponents necrons vehicles all have fly, so he just ignored it all game. (Same would go for eldar and tau)
Haha, doing all this list building has made me realize how balanced nids are. Every list is strong against some armies and weak against others.
|
|
|
Post by rogerspacem on Feb 14, 2018 16:54:07 GMT -6
Hey Eric,
I was going to say you shouldn't underestimate the mawlock. Having a couple can go a long way especially for throwing off your opponent. As you said, nids are pretty balanced. So it's hard to say which options are better for you so think of this.
What's the purpose of the nids you are actually bringing? Like what are they specifically doing to help you achieve your goal? What's your goal? It's a silly question but necessary to answer.
|
|