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Post by Nick P on Sept 22, 2014 7:25:46 GMT -6
I'll just leave this here... I have to say, I love the model - but its priced at 62 Euro, which puts it at $79 or $81 as rumored. That means we can realistically purchase a razerwing and a few bits off ebay (extra engine pods) to convert one for cheaper. Depending on the new rules, could be worth it. Or hell, I'll just grab one or two...christmas is coming up afterall. I'm kinda shocked how DEAD ON most of the conversions over the last 4 years have been...if you google "voidraven conversion", you end up with conversions like these:
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Post by Russell on Sept 22, 2014 8:47:52 GMT -6
Wow, those conversions are dead on. Does the bomber already have rules in the current DE codex?
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Post by Nick P on Sept 22, 2014 8:55:01 GMT -6
Yup, its AV11 (super tough by DE standards), follows the normal flyer rules under 6th/7th edition (which were printed in the DE book under "supersonic" special rules). Comes standard with 2 S9 AP2 lances, and a S9 AP2 small blast one-use bomb, that targets a single model it passes over in the movement phase and scatters D6".
It can also take missiles for a premium; 30 points a pop for large blast missiles that require a strength test or instant death, AP2.
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Post by Nick P on Sept 22, 2014 12:12:31 GMT -6
Is that a new archon model I spy in the sample image of the book? Doesn't look like a conversion...and why would they have a conversion in the actual codex? I think we get a clampack next week boys and girls. And look at those weapons! Much closer to what the Dissy cannon looks like than an enhanced Dark Lance...maybe its going to see a different weapon option this time around? And those 2 slicey things under the engines - are those the bombs (two of them)? Or just aesthetic differences to set it apart from the razorwing? Welp, looks like Jen's birthday present for next week is going to be a pre-ordered copy of the codex and a voidraven. Surprise!
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Sept 22, 2014 12:57:04 GMT -6
That Archon looks sweet as fuck.
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mike
Butts
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Post by mike on Sept 22, 2014 15:19:07 GMT -6
yeah i'm excited for this archon model. the bomber is quite rad too. I'll see how long I can hold out on that one though.
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Post by Nick P on Sept 22, 2014 15:32:51 GMT -6
the picture of the bomber on the cover of WD has void lances (larger than normal dark lance looking things), but the model inside the magazine has those dissy cannon looking things (honestly, kind of look like Heavy Wraith Cannons from the wraithknight kit). So it at the very least has two different weapon options, one for anti tank and one for anti infantry. I'll likely be getting at least one, if for no other reason than to have an extra thing to sit in my closet with the wyches once I check out the rules.
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Post by Russell on Sept 22, 2014 19:30:45 GMT -6
yeah i'm excited for this archon model. the bomber is quite rad too. I'll see how long I can hold out on that one though. Bro get another Nephilim.
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Post by Nick P on Sept 26, 2014 9:12:40 GMT -6
Welp, the first round of info is flowing from people who have seen the books pre-emptively at GWs and warehouses across the US and Europe. One of the german blogs I read had some info on the new codex:
NO VECT in codex - this is a huge shocker No Duke or Baron or Decapitator or Malys - as expected No new units outside of what we're used to - as expected
Warlord traits are generic - better at combat, better at shooting, rerolls to hit, etc. Probably better off using the Strategic traits from the rule book still.
Beast packs have changed - min 12 models (of whatever type); chimeras are just demons now, so 5+ invuln. Flocks only have 3 attacks. Clawed fiend is cheaper.
Talos and Cronos engines can be taken in units of 1-3 and have FNP.
All vehicles can deep strike now.
Relics were vague - apparently a lot to do with limiting enemy psykers, and modifying leadership and forcing LD tests.
Webway portal is not placed on the table - lets the HQ and unit that takes it deep strike onto the table without deviating. Still 35 points.
Vehicle equipment is relatively the same - splinter racks, trophies, etc. Flickerfield is still in, and now we can give our vehicles stealth apparently as well (might be new version of night shields, translation was vague).
Some new weapons, but few and far between. Talos has a new option, S5 AP2 24" range small blast.
Voidraven was stated as being "very overpriced" but no point cost included.
Splinter Cannon is, as expected, 4/6 salvo. Shredder does not have mono-filament, but does have Shred.
The portion on combat drugs and power from pain was difficult to translate, but it sounds like the combat drugs were simplified - 6 options, each adding +1 to a stat. WS, BS, S, T, A, I. Still universal across all models with drugs.
Power from Pain still effects the same units it always has, and includes FNP, Furious Charge, Rage, Fearless, and (the source says) more. The source didn't explain how PfP is activated well - the translation didn't make sense.
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Post by Nick P on Sept 26, 2014 9:25:57 GMT -6
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Post by Joelercoaster on Sept 26, 2014 10:51:07 GMT -6
So the real question here, is what do I do with my AWESOME duke conversion? Could pass as a (very) bland heamy I suppose...
*edit*.... so if this is accurate, what you're saying is that instead of half the drugs being a legit combat boost, and FnP (pain token) being another option.... now we can get a BS boost on Wyches? I'd rather have the improved Run. Sheesh.
Granted, that's not accounting for any (potential) point changes or anything.
Does this strike anyone as a bit early for a full leaked codex? We're not even on the pre-order week yet. Shrug. Suspicions arise, as they always do in the Dark City.
Bummed about Vect... but honestly no one ever took him. Horribly overpriced, and the Dias was worse. Although he does technically have a (Dias) model. Just, you know... Old. But so is Drazhar... hmmff.
Plus side, if Trueborn/Brides were upgrades, does that mean trueborn as troops? Would free up Elites for Incubi/Mandrakes, assuming they act as competent assault units. Also don't hate the idea of PfP becoming turn-based. Still get FnP early enough to make a difference, and it would just hit everything, which is grand. Although (probably) no more taking a Heamy as a token-buff for a unit that needs the early durability (of course, that puts Coven units in focus as "the durable ones" even more... not a bad call).
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Post by Nick P on Sept 26, 2014 12:55:10 GMT -6
But Joel - we ARE in the pre-order week. They're up for pre-order as we speak. Apparently, there were a few FLGS that got their orders in early and decided to play "make our customers love us more so we don't go out of business" by selling them to them early. A few places on the net have promises of pics in the next few hours, so fingers crossed. I think on the whole its going to be a good boost to the army. Army wide PfP that stacks every turn is amazing, upgrading warriors and wyches to trueborn and bloodbrides is also amazing - even more so if it keeps them in troops. Superscoring blasterborn? YES PLEASE Also, as more leaks keep coming, apparently the voidraven is 240ish in points cost (they just said close to a Land Raider in cost), and only AV10 all around (old one was only 11, but still...bummer). But the void mine is a large blast now, so thats baller. And the new weapons might be better than the old void lance. So maybe worth it. We can apparently get stealth on our vehicles, which means 3+ jink is back in the mix. Honestly, it feels like the standard blasterborn, warriors, wychs + haywire, and venoms galore with a handful of ravagers is still going to be a solid list. The trick is going to be in HQ, since haemies aren't likely to help boost PfP anymore. I'm glad that nothing I love got totally ruined Thanks GW
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Post by Nick P on Sept 26, 2014 12:57:21 GMT -6
OH also, we don't necessarily know what options we have for drug re-rolls. So keep that in mind. Hell, we might have a situation where we actually get to choose a drug - imagine that, the wyches aren't just throwing random cocktails into their veins, but actually choosing what to get high on. No, that's crazy.
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Post by Joelercoaster on Sept 26, 2014 14:18:36 GMT -6
Heh... I've kind of been out of the loop since I was out in Montana, didn't realize it was coming quite so soon. Plus I just woke up from a nap.
Wow... 240 does seem very steep. It *could* be worth it... the potential is there. But its hard to see with only two guns and a single bomb. I mean, if it had 2 S10 lance shots (plus bomb)... would that really out-perform its points in ravagers? Or (almost) two Razorwings? I'm not a huge proponent of throwing the D around, but at the very least the bomb would about have to be before I'd seriously consider that cost for an AV10 flyer. OR some really, really, really amazing special rules. Like I said, possible.
So Drugs... if this table is accurate... +S or +A are very close to equal in combat effectiveness +WS is better than most people think because it's so often the difference between hitting on 3's - however is sometimes useless. +BS is more of a boon to Hellions/Reavers, but even poison pistols hitting on 2's will add up (if you can afford to shoot) +I is typically worthless, as our low Init is already 6. So.. really? Is that necessary? +T would be one of the new favorites for sure. Reavers are hard enough to shift with a 3+ and FnP... add in T5 and laugh.
If night shields simply become stealth, then that's total bunk. Night Shields as they are are a beautiful finesse tool that a hardened Archon can use to decimate his/her foes. Stealth is basically useless against half of all armies. Well, useless against 1/3, and very easily useless vs 1/2 or more through allies and whatnot. I really wanted Skilled Rider on our boats. I mean, c'mooooon.
Good to know shredders are still useless, though. Hope they still get a price bump because they have a special rule now.
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Post by Nick P on Sept 26, 2014 15:08:06 GMT -6
So some things to confirm -
Voidraven bit was mistranslated - its the same cost as a landraider when fully upgraded with missiles. Its base cost should be closer to 160-170 or so, assuming missiles are 15-20 points each. Also the bomb is verified, S9 AP2 Lance large blast template. So, not terrible, if the points are low enough could easily be worth it.
Night shields = stealth. Flicker fields are not allowed on raiders, but stock on venoms still. This means we can still get 3+ jink, which is great! And no flicker fields means I don't even have to think about saving those points, which is again great.
What else...uhm...Reavers! S4 Rending on bladevane, S6 rending on caltrops. And rending on HoW attacks. BALLER.
Also our FoC goes like this: 1-2 HQ, 2-6 troops, 1-6 FA, 0-3 Heavy, 0-3 Elite. And everything gets 5+ cover during Night Fight (plus the stealth, if I understand it correctly...so basically a 4+ cover save). Awesome.
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