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Post by Eric formerly Eric on Jul 30, 2017 18:39:11 GMT -6
But it says you can only hit the target unit (after they hit you). So you cant hit a 2nd unit that charges you. You specifically have to hit the unit that already hit you. Im honestly wondering: when have you successfully used that?
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Post by rogerspacem on Jul 30, 2017 18:48:14 GMT -6
I had a match against Craig when he charged my warlord with deathleaper and charged another unit with his swarmlord. He decided to activate his lord and murdered my biker dudes, but I active that strag. To save my warlord (or at least prevent taking extra damage) and killed his leaper instead. That strag.does come in handy but maybe not with nids as much since you are doing the charging. Still it has it uses.
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Post by rogerspacem on Jul 30, 2017 18:56:35 GMT -6
But it says you can only hit the target unit (after they hit you). So you cant hit a 2nd unit that charges you. You specifically have to hit the unit that already hit you. Im honestly wondering: when have you successfully used that? Otherwise I have seen games where that strag. Has been used and it helps. Again best used when you are the target of multiple charges.
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Post by Eric formerly Eric on Jul 30, 2017 19:05:56 GMT -6
I had a match against Craig when he charged my warlord with deathleaper and charged another unit with his swarmlord. He decided to activate his lord and murdered my biker dudes, but I active that strag. To save my warlord (or at least prevent taking extra damage) and killed his leaper instead. That strag does come in handy but maybe not with nids as much since you are doing the charging. Still it has it uses. So that use would be great. But it was ruled that I could not do that. I am taking another look at the language: "This stratagem is used after an enemy unit that charged has fought. Select one of your own eligible units and fight with it next" I agree with you, but the way that it was interpreted was you have to fight with the charging enemy unit next. So I could only choose a unit that is eligible to hit the charging enemy unit. So I wasn't allowed to use it in that way. EDIT: To be clear, I agree with you RAI. But as interpreted yesterday, RAW, I had to select a unit to fight the charging unit (ie. the unit that already hit me).
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Post by rogerspacem on Jul 30, 2017 19:42:03 GMT -6
I had a match against Craig when he charged my warlord with deathleaper and charged another unit with his swarmlord. He decided to activate his lord and murdered my biker dudes, but I active that strag. To save my warlord (or at least prevent taking extra damage) and killed his leaper instead. That strag does come in handy but maybe not with nids as much since you are doing the charging. Still it has it uses. So that use would be great. But it was ruled that I could not do that. I am taking another look at the language: "This stratagem is used after an enemy unit that charged has fought. Select one of your own eligible units and fight with it next" I agree with you, but the way that it was interpreted was you have to fight with the charging enemy unit next. So I could only choose a unit that is eligible to hit the charging enemy unit. So I wasn't allowed to use it in that way. EDIT: To be clear, I agree with you RAI. But as interpreted yesterday, RAW, I had to select a unit to fight the charging unit (ie. the unit that already hit me). RAW "Select one of your own eligible units and fight with it next" its referring to the unit you selected, then you fight with that selected unit next. Not, select a unit and fight with the charging enemy unit. If they ruled that at the tournament then you got jipped
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Post by Nick P on Jul 31, 2017 6:31:23 GMT -6
I had a match against Craig when he charged my warlord with deathleaper and charged another unit with his swarmlord. He decided to activate his lord and murdered my biker dudes, but I active that strag. To save my warlord (or at least prevent taking extra damage) and killed his leaper instead. That strag does come in handy but maybe not with nids as much since you are doing the charging. Still it has it uses. So that use would be great. But it was ruled that I could not do that. I am taking another look at the language: "This stratagem is used after an enemy unit that charged has fought. Select one of your own eligible units and fight with it next" I agree with you, but the way that it was interpreted was you have to fight with the charging enemy unit next. So I could only choose a unit that is eligible to hit the charging enemy unit. So I wasn't allowed to use it in that way. EDIT: To be clear, I agree with you RAI. But as interpreted yesterday, RAW, I had to select a unit to fight the charging unit (ie. the unit that already hit me). Whoever told you that is full of shit and doesn't understand the rules. "Select one of your own eligible units and fight with it" - how on earth could that mean that you have to fight a specific enemy unit? What the strategem does is let you interrupt the assault sequence, and after one of your opponent's chargers has fought, you get to throw down next by activating ANY unit you want that is in combat to attack. You were robbed man. No where in GWs rules do they ever ever use the term "fight with it" to mean "target an enemy unit".
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Post by Eric formerly Eric on Jul 31, 2017 6:46:19 GMT -6
Well yeah i think as the first tourney of 8th, im pretty fine with some of the mistakes made. I made a ton myself that no one thing was game changing. 1. Forgot to deny the witch. 24" is solid range. 2. Split fire way too often rather than finishing off units. Biggest offender was exocrine. 3. Relied too much on tying units up. Most of the top armies have tons of units with fly or an equivalent rule to leave combat. 4. Fucking tau. I needed to prioritize my charges better to get away from the crazy 6" overwatch range. My stealers, deathleaper, etc. All got wrecked by that. 5. Since i inevitably went last, i did a bad job of hiding my units from alpha strikes. At least one of exocrine, swarmy and the flyrant were gone by my first turn. 6. Too many deepstrikes at once. Its really hard to put 4-5 big units in advantageous positions all 9" away from enemy units. Taking advantage of reserves was a good idea, but i shouldnt have brought everyone down T1. Of course, the one game i didnt do that, i forgot about deathleaper.
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Post by Eric formerly Eric on Jul 31, 2017 7:03:08 GMT -6
A couple Tyranid specific problems: 1. General lack of high strength, high damage offense. Lascannons and melta are easily accessible for most armies. Exocrine is wounding rhinos on a 4+. I was shocked at how hard it was to bring down a rhino or dreadclaw. Even in combat, tyrants, fexes and trygons are only s6/7.
2. Lack of invulns on the big guys. Again, i found our monsters going down incredibly easily. One of our biggest disadvantages in 7th is still true. Flyrant's 5++ is worse than a basic marine captain's 4++.
3. Flyrant is just bad, especially when compared to HQs/melee beatsticks in his points range. I took the deathspitter/claw combo and pulled off T1 charges in games he survived T1. Neither did much. While lack of damage output is a problem (he really struggled against a sicaran, contemptor, and obviously a daemon prince), the biggest blow is being a 10 w character with depreciating stats. At T6, he is incredibly easily to take out. Similarly, Swarmy was great at full strength 8, 7a. He took out a sicaran and a defiler easily. But he depreciates to a tyrant profile... which is terrible. 4. Lastly, deathleaper wasnt very effective because its easy just to bubblewrap. He did take 3 wounds off typhus though!
TLDR: S6 T6 is one of the weaker profiles in the game. Hard to kill any space marine vehicle, easy to be taken down by anything.
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Post by Nick P on Jul 31, 2017 7:30:32 GMT -6
I have found that our best advantage is the sheer number of attacks - rending attacks too - that we can dish out. S8+ is key for taking out vehicles and big characters if you have limited volume, but S4 with rending and throwing a bucket of dice can do the same thing.
Also of note, for things like Fly, if you can surround them they can't escape - which is why I love hormagaunts so much; with the 6" pile in and the only rule being "get closer to the enemy unit", you should be able to wrap around small units of crisis suits and the like to prevent them flying away. Granted, that comes back to the positioning problem you mention - being able to reliably get them in the right spot in order to do that is another story.
Nids seem like they have answers to a lot of things, but it all goes back to having the setup work out perfectly - otherwise they're kinda toast. But we'll see what happens with our codex - I have a strong feeling we'll see more invulns on characters, or lowered points costs, or the return of TL on weapons (ie, double shots!)
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Post by Eric formerly Eric on Jul 31, 2017 7:41:02 GMT -6
Flying units cant jump over other units?
Ok to add to my mistakes: not purposefully surrounding vehicles/units to lock them into combat and keep embarked units from disembarking.
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Post by Nick P on Jul 31, 2017 7:56:17 GMT -6
Yup - fly lets you retreat from combat and still shoot, but it doesn't let you move over enemy models. Only specific special rules - like flyers and the like - allow you to do that.
EDIT: Actually I'm not so sure - there is a small blurb in the rulebook that says that flying units can move over models, but does the FLY keyword mean it's a flying unit? Or does that only apply to actual flying units with minimum move distances like flyers and flying monstrous creatures?
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Post by Eric formerly Eric on Jul 31, 2017 8:12:54 GMT -6
Yup - fly lets you retreat from combat and still shoot, but it doesn't let you move over enemy models. Only specific special rules - like flyers and the like - allow you to do that. EDIT: Actually I'm not so sure - there is a small blurb in the rulebook that says that flying units can move over models, but does the FLY keyword mean it's a flying unit? Or does that only apply to actual flying units with minimum move distances like flyers and flying monstrous creatures? I have to think it is referring to units with fly. (I love what GW are doing, but this rulebook is sometimes vague and very poorly organized.)
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Post by Nick P on Jul 31, 2017 8:23:55 GMT -6
Yeah after re-reading it, it has to include units with the FLY keyword, so yeah you can't just surround them like I suggested. Unless you can also do so in so many ranks that they can't end their move outside 1" from the units - so with a 8" move on crisis suits, you'd have to have 7" of hormagaunts which is kinda impossible.
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Post by Eric formerly Eric on Aug 1, 2017 15:32:30 GMT -6
How do yall feel about the barbed hierodule? I was looking for extra offense, but idk. Its shots are S8 but theyre only AP-2 and d3 damage. Definitely a beast in combat though
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Post by Joelercoaster on Aug 1, 2017 18:41:05 GMT -6
What are the Nid big beasties like? I've only (kind of) seen the malanthrope, but nothing for 'dules or the heirophant (and considering I have one, I'd love to hear more about how it works xD)
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