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Post by Nick P on Apr 28, 2014 8:00:38 GMT -6
Apparently GW is in fact putting out something new for 40k this year afterall...whether or not it will take the form of an entirely new ruleset, or merely a combination of SA, Escalation, and the current rules, remains to be seen. The rumor mongers are reporting that pre-orders for "40k rulebook of some sort" will go live May 17th, with release May 24th. As of now, GW is recalling all current 6th ed books from the shelves, and when I last looked it was no longer available on the US GW site.
Proceed to speculate with reckless abandon!
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Post by Deleted on Apr 28, 2014 8:17:47 GMT -6
I heard awhile back that the changes were going to be minor, aside from adding SA and Escalation. One example the source gave was that overwatch required an initiative test to use.
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cj
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Post by cj on Apr 28, 2014 8:41:40 GMT -6
Can we please have vaguely useful close combat rules? Please!
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Post by Nick P on Apr 28, 2014 9:42:28 GMT -6
I've heard the Initiative test in order to overwatch rumor from several sources, so if true the assault phase will be INFINITELY more useful, and a lot of the power builds that rely on overwatch will be brought back down to earth. My wych cult will see revival if that rings true!
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Post by Deleted on Apr 28, 2014 10:20:31 GMT -6
I'd love to see assault buffed in 7e, I'm looking towards an assault based CSM army for my next one. I'd like to see it be viable atleast.
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Post by jefferestinpeace on Apr 28, 2014 10:26:45 GMT -6
If GW could kill Battle Brothers for me, that'd be great.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 28, 2014 11:56:09 GMT -6
Just so you guys know, the Overwatch rumor as I read it a couple months ago was based on one of the Zone Mortalis rules: Reactive Fire.
With Reactive Fire (or is it Reaction Fire? Anyway...) you make an Initiative check before you do your Overwatch shots. If you pass your Initiative check, you Overwatch at FULL Ballistic Skill. If you fail, you still Overwatch, but as Snapfir like it currently stands.
Its actually a really fun rule and works well in an environment like Zone Mortalis where you don't actually see assaulters until they are right on top of you. In the current incarnation of 40K on standard boards it will only serve to drive another nail in the coffin of assault based armies.
My armies have always been a mix of assault and shooting with lots of vehicles. This edition hasn't been kind to 2/3 of that combination of elements so I'd like to see a slight buff to both vehicles and assaulters, or even just assaulters as then there will be a shake up in target priority and maybe my vehicles will survive a tiny bit longer.
Regardless, I never bought 6th Edition because it came out after I lost my professional job and I rejoined the underpaid labor force, so an edition change this soon will probably only invalidate or override my Stronghold Assault book if those rules get absorbed in, which I can live with. We'll see.
I will note that I was absolutely shocked that the Baneblade did not appear in the AM Codex. That was GW's moment to truly force the issue on incorporating super-heavies into standard 40K and they didn't pull the trigger. For me it was an interesting development in their current sales/game development strategy.
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Post by Matt W. on Apr 28, 2014 19:50:55 GMT -6
I will note that I was absolutely shocked that the Baneblade did not appear in the AM Codex. That was GW's moment to truly force the issue on incorporating super-heavies into standard 40K and they didn't pull the trigger. For me it was an interesting development in their current sales/game development strategy. That's really because I think that GW does not want to force the issue. GW essentially seceded the concept of backing a tournament circuit, and so I think they just wanted to open up the option of Super-heavies from a sale and game play perspective. There are plenty of places and groups that don't have the room to run an apoc event. Imperial Knights did something along those same lines. Here is really what I would change to make assault better. Leave it as Snap fire but only allow it the charging foe is outside of something like 8 Inches. So the risky charge stays the risk charge on an average of 7 for 2 dice, but once inside that mark it becomes impossible for the unit receiving the charge to react in time. This makes it a bit more dynamic. If you expect you are going to get charged then you have to move to be able to react to it, giving ground so you have room to overwatch. This is a pretty half formed idea but I like it none the less. And the allies matrix/FOC could use some sprucing up.
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Post by Nick P on Apr 28, 2014 20:15:48 GMT -6
I think an initiative test to snap fire over watch at all makes sense, as does allowing for sweeping advance into a new combat, again with an initiative test and over watch. Basically a mix between 5th and 6th ed assault. Would mean it's tougher to overwatch but you still get it 1/3 or 1/2 the time for most armies, but assault troops get a boost by being able to stay in the safety of assault if planned properly. Assaulting from reserve would be an improvement too, but not from deep strike. Would let assaults armies alpha strike as well as snooty ones.
I think vehicles probably do need a boost, the hull point system is fun but does make it easy to take out av10 with bolt pistols. Which shouldn't be a thing.
USRs for the most part work well, hoping they and the psychic disciplines stay essentially the same.
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Post by Matt W. on Apr 28, 2014 20:58:12 GMT -6
Vehicles need to be dramatically cheaper in points. Most of the new Guard Codex was good to the Leman Russ family, but it was a kick in the face to the Hellhound family.
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Post by Joelercoaster on Apr 29, 2014 6:48:18 GMT -6
Eh, keep in mind that a "lowly bolt pistol" is a hand-held, rocket propelled grenade pistol.
I've heard a fair slew of rumors for "what 7th will bring"... though I don't have time to type them all out right now. Have to go find socks and run off to work. Bother.
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cj
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Post by cj on Apr 29, 2014 7:59:52 GMT -6
I think the best way to make close combat viable is to not eliminate the bonuses from charging if you multi charge. If something has furious charge, why would they lose that with more targets? Same thing with rage or what have you. That alone would make close combat more viable and mean that shooting armies would be unable to just sit in a corner clumped together.
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Post by Joelercoaster on Apr 29, 2014 16:26:46 GMT -6
Changes I have heard -
The aforementioned Init test to Overwatch. You *can* consolidate into a new unit from a successful combat, *however* this will trigger another Overwatch (attempt). Fleet gives an additional d6 whenever you roll random movement distance *in any phase*, dropping the lowest. Charging through Diff Terrain gives a -2 Init Penalty Move Through Cover ignores the Init Penalty for assaulting through Dif Terrain. Vector Strike loses its AP value, but becomes d6 hits instead.
The changes to assault instantly make Hormagaunts at least near viable, and worth trying out fresh. Genestealers, still no. Vector Strike would blow, however I wonder if Smash would just carry over, essentially making them (baring the 'Drake) AP2 instead. Either way, Crones still wreck vehicles, and that's all that matters.
Overwatch changes... cool. Overwatch isn't what has shut down assault armies, the problems are inherent in so much more than a few odd hits out of the Shooting phase. Barring Tau, Overwatch just doesn't account for much aside from fun stories.
*EDIT*
Forgot a *big* one - no more cover saves!! Instead, modifiers will come back into the game. Cover will, basically, fall into "soft" (-1 BS) and "hard" (-2 BS). My guess, and mine alone, would be that Stealth/Shrouded would simply add their own modifiers. If this is true, it's fairly huge - Stealth'd units in a forest (hard cover) suddenly give -3 to hit... which means "most" armies (BS3) can't shoot them. Units like Mandrakes that have for the longest time been out of place suddenly start to look almost scary - Infiltrate into good terrain, and the enemy can't touch you. Using Fleet and Move Through Cover, you're closing in on them dirty-efficient, and now you actually get to fight in combat before being hacked down from not having grenades.
Yep. I may finally finish converting my squad of Mandrakes. How cool is that?
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Post by Nick P on Apr 29, 2014 21:24:46 GMT -6
If they used the bs modifying system from fantasy, as is rumored, I'm not sure that would be a viable change. As 40k is an inherently shooty game, you'd suddenly find yourself unable to fire at jet bikes that turbo boosted, flatted out fast skimmers, etc. with orks or humans or Nids. It would be brutal to the core.
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Post by Matt W. on Apr 29, 2014 21:33:11 GMT -6
I'm putting my money on a simplification of current rules rather than a dramatic overhaul.
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