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Post by Nick P on Feb 11, 2017 13:46:38 GMT -6
I've been hammering out some lists to see what I can do with the new ynarri stuff, and man is it tough.
I feel like unlike the imperial triumverate, the eldar one kinda needs all 3 to be effective - so thats 625 points spoken for right off the bat.
Beyond that, I'm having a hard time deciding what formations if any make sense, and from there what units can fill in the gaps.
The formation with 2x avengers, 1x wyches and 1x incubi seems good - throw the Visarch in with the incubi in a raider for +1 WS, throw Yvraine into the wyches in a raider for the +1WS and BS, and throw the avengers into venoms. They all get furious charge if within 7" of each other which makes the wyches S4 and the incubi S5 which seems awesome, and they can do soulbound actions within 14" instead of 7" which means they don't have to all stay huddled together as blast template bait.
From there I thought a farseer as my dedicated HQ and a unit of 3-4 jetbikes would do their normal thing, harassing infantry and light vehicles alike as well as grab objectives.
Then I'm stumped. With about 400 points left, do I add more kabablites in venoms or raiders? Scourges to help with antitank? A wraithknight for antitank? Just more bodies on foot to take advantage of the soulbound actions to move up the board? More bikes?
Every list I write seems too few in bodies or too light in anti tank. If anyone is willing to help test out ideas I'm looking to get some 1850 practice with the list this coming week to see what works and what doesn't.
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Post by 1D3chan on Feb 11, 2017 14:48:41 GMT -6
Why 1850? If you're practicing for the Adepticon Friendly, it's 1500. Either way, I will definitely do some work with you.
It'll be like we're gym buddies only with dolls
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Post by Nick P on Feb 11, 2017 14:57:54 GMT -6
Friendly requires a CAD and the ynarri can't take a CAD. Though I may bring the Visarch and the yncarne with my DE.
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Post by mcsardo on Feb 11, 2017 21:44:11 GMT -6
Yeah, I was looking through the book and having similar thoughts. You want all 3, but that's a lot of points. And if you don't take the formation, then taking just Yvraine and the Visarch is taking both of your HQ choices. To take advantage of soulburst you want a bunch of extra non-vehicle bodies that you're fine sacrificing for extra phases.
While the Triumvirate is great, it's not quite as broken as Celestine and it is a huge point drain.
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Post by 1D3chan on Feb 12, 2017 0:29:06 GMT -6
My thoughts which are kind of just late night rambles (and I think differ from the current hivemind internet chatter enough to post): If you're looking for competitive, your best bet is to build a Ynnari force with the Reborn Warhost using units in your Aeldari collection that you already like / have powerful success with. The main goal is to chain Soulburst and try to get extra movement phases (for your assault units) or shooting phases for your shooting units. I'm not saying do this, but the most powerful thing you can do in a Ynnari army is move a Wraithknight 12", trigger a Soulburst (might be as easy as through a psychic power) to move him another 12" and he's effectively in charge or flamer range on T1. You could do the same thing with Turbo-Boosting Reavers - getting 6 or 9 of them in small squads right in the grill of your opponent on your turn 1, and as soon as he shoots one down, the others fly in - in your opponents turn 1 shooting phase. I think that the Ynnead's Net (bike) formation is supposed to try and do this.
I think the other formations, including the triumverate, are okay. I might even call the formations a little bit lack luster, while I'd call the Triumverate actually balanced. Neither Yvraine or the Visarch have Invuls...that is a pretty huge indication of where they realistically stand in terms of combat. They have EW, but are always getting wounded on 2's and depending on not getting pinged in one phase so they can start to recover their wounds back.
Other examples of ways to really stretch the Ynnari rules would be to take a Farseer, like you said, make him Ynnari and roll for the Warlord trait that lets you pick your powers.
I also think the relic that grants FnP, Eternal Warrior and It Will Not Die is kind of a home-run relic that I'm sure could have some really strong applications, possibly also for a Farseer on a bike with Sanctuary or Invis. Also note how its draw back is that they lose the IC rule...like in Age of Sigmar.
Taking advantage of the Reborn Warhost rule that ignores the 25% casualties (and grants Stubborn) army wide is also a must for these MSU style lists. We all know the best way to get rid of jetbikes is to kill one and watch the others flee. This "pseudo-fearless" is a really strong benefit to them.
Of course there's also now the Dark Eldar Taxi service option again for the heavy eldar firepower hitters. I might actually suggest that for your last 400 points - 2 raiders with Fire Dragons or something. You might even get lucky, keep em together and that inevitable moment that one of them gets totally wiped after they slag their target, the other one gets another 6 'bonus' soulburst melta shots
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Post by Nick P on Feb 12, 2017 11:33:20 GMT -6
Yvraine has a 4++ invuln, but yeah visarch is banking hard on just recouping wounds and hoping not to run into too much ap3 in combat.
Also part of the reason you take the triumverate formation is it grants army wide fearless. That makes your msu army very tough to move, since you don't get the benefit of forcing runaways. You have to kill them - and then you get more shit in your face for your trouble.
I'm leaning towards the triumverate, farseer on bike or autarch with banshee mask, a wraithknight and then 2x3 wind riders, 2x3 reavers, msu kabbalite venom spam, and then 7-8 incubi in a raider for the Visarch/yvraine/the autarch to go in.
Fast moving, small units that can be sacrificed for more movement/shooting out of the wraithknight and bike units, and then have the yncarne popping up all over to maximize its bubble fnp and psychic buffs/offense.
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Post by Nick P on Feb 12, 2017 11:35:52 GMT -6
Also ynneads net has to start off the board, and have to come in from opposite board edges, so its going to be hard to chain them together.
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Post by mcsardo on Feb 12, 2017 12:49:53 GMT -6
I almost wonder if it would be better to have some barebones kabbalite outside of venoms, since the vehicles don't count for soulburst moves, that you could sacrifice for 40 points to get the heavy hitters into position.
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jesse
neophyte
Posts: 732
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Post by jesse on Feb 12, 2017 14:33:34 GMT -6
Barebones Kabbalites might actually work out well in this list because the soul burst incentivizes people to ignore them (especially if it would allow, like, Fire Dragons or Reapers a round of shooting or Incubi to assault).
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Post by Joelercoaster on Feb 12, 2017 17:37:01 GMT -6
Hmm... every squad of incubi gets a 5-man warrior squad (with blaster) to run in front of it, and give said Incubi a free assault if you shoot them?
I think, eventually, the range will be a limiting factor (7"). I don't know that it will be super-hard to ignore 5 warriors on foot until they're not near a friendly, or those friendlies are already engaged in combat, etc.
Assault units can already get a soul-burst from their Raider going up in flames... I think I'd pay for transports for everything before spending the points on a unit that's only there to die. Maybe. There's a weird balancing act to it, to be sure...
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Post by mcsardo on Feb 12, 2017 17:42:41 GMT -6
Yeah, I misread the soulburst rule. Only non-vehicle units can make the action, but a wrecked vehicle counts as a destroyed unit. Which raises a question: does an IC joined to a unit count as a distinct unit for this purpose, as it does for kill points? If you lose an IC in the shooting phase, could the unit it was attached to shoot back?
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Post by Joelercoaster on Feb 12, 2017 18:47:23 GMT -6
I would imagine so. If it counts as a killpoint, it (I think) counts for soulburst.
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Post by 1D3chan on Feb 12, 2017 23:29:58 GMT -6
Also ynneads net has to start off the board, and have to come in from opposite board edges, so its going to be hard to chain them together. Since they all come in on one roll, you can Turbo-Boost them the turn they arrive so they are right next to each other and inches away from the target(s). The enemy has a Warlock Conclave, Reavers and the Zephyr Glaive Harlies in Soulburst range at their door that can technically charge in the opponents ensuing shooting phase if he blows one up. Damned if you do damned if you don't. That's also with the school of thought that they cannot just plain use a Soulburst action to charge on the turn they arrive from Reserve - because if they could, a fat scatter pack in that formation could trigger your cc bikes to charge in your own shooting phase, rather than waiting for your opponents to blow one up. I think it will be ruled that they still can't charge that turn, but at the same time I can absolutely still see GW FAQ'ing it so Soulburst overrides the no charge from reserves/deep strike rule.
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Post by Nick P on Feb 13, 2017 7:58:55 GMT -6
This is the big question I have about using WWPs to get incubi into position as well - since the soulburst action already ignores so many rules that would preclude a unit from shooting, running, moving, charging, etc - I could absolutely see it ignoring the reserve restriction as well. I don't have it in front of me here at work, but isn't the verbiage something like "may move as if it is your movement phase, run or shoot as if it is your shooting phase, and make a charge move as if it is your charge sub-phase"? If so, you basically treat it as if it a "normal" phase for all intents and purposes, without taking into account whether a unit arrived from reserve, already ran or shot, already tried to charge, already moved, etc etc etc.
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Post by mcsardo on Feb 13, 2017 8:46:52 GMT -6
Yeah, I was wondering if you could use soulburst to charge from reserves or after scouting. I was thinking of throwing eldrad in as an HQ to scout 3 units. You kill one, you get counter-charged; you leave them, they're charging turn 2.
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