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Post by 1D3chan on Feb 13, 2017 10:44:37 GMT -6
Yeah it's causing a lot of nerd debate across the aetherlands. To me, it reads like this:
If you get a Soulburst Action, you may immediately take an additional phase this turn. If you can't assault in your 1st assault phase in your deep strike turn, then you can't assault in your 2nd or 15th assault phase in your Deep Strike turn. As long as it's still in the turn you enter, Soulburst won't over ride the normal rule that you can't assault in your assault phase(s) the turn you deep strike.
I don't think this applies to the moving and shooting one because those phases don't have any strict limitations about the turn when they happen, just the phase. So for example, if you Turbo-Boost, you cannot shoot anymore in that shooting phase. But it doesn't say anything about not being able to shoot again that turn. So if you get a million shooting phases in a turn, all bets are off. If you get a million assault phases, you'll never be able to charge since they still happen in the turn you came in from reserves.
However once GW FAQ's this, it could easily go the other way but that's what my understanding is RAW right now.
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Post by Nick P on Feb 13, 2017 10:58:32 GMT -6
That's a great take on it Madison, and probably the correct one. Noting that the limitation on charging from reserves is specifically "the turn they arrive", makes a big difference. But, as Daniel pointed out "turn" specifically only means player turn, so you can absolutely charge them in on your opponents turn with a soulbound action, so long as they aren't killed first.
So maybe taking 2 WWPs, on with a deathstar of incubi + archon + visarch, and another on a unit of cheap troops, and using the troops as a screen for the incubi would work. If your opponent tries to focus down the incubi, they at least get a save from the intervening unit, and if they focus down the troops they get charged by the incubi.
Though that troop unit + character with WWP is a pretty expensive unit just for a trick - 45 (5 kabbs) + WWP (30) + character (cheapest would be a naked archon at 60) = 135 points just to maybe keep your incubi alive. Granted that unit can dish out 11 splinter shots the turn they arrive and try its best to play "big bad unit" that the opponent might be tempted into taking down.
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Post by jefferestinpeace on Feb 13, 2017 11:37:16 GMT -6
#soulburstgate
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Post by 1D3chan on Feb 13, 2017 12:24:38 GMT -6
that feel when your once proud and noble tabletop wargaming forum has devolved in Eldar players talking about how many shooting phases they have in their turn. And in your turn.
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mike
Butts
Posts: 628 
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Post by mike on Feb 13, 2017 12:30:00 GMT -6
This rule sure is clunky. It seems like there is going to be a difficult balance to strike between having units small enough to reliably die vs big enough to make an impact with an additional phase of play.
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mike
Butts
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Post by mike on Feb 13, 2017 13:24:25 GMT -6
Also, if I can't take grotesques... that means I have to use slyth right? I don't think we have many options for wrapping an HQ unit outside of slyth or maybe incubi (assuming i'm putting these chumps in a raider).
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Post by 1D3chan on Feb 13, 2017 13:59:06 GMT -6
Also, if I can't take grotesques... that means I have to use slyth right? I don't think we have many options for wrapping an HQ unit outside of slyth or maybe incubi (assuming i'm putting these chumps in a raider). who has better butts? |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 13, 2017 14:03:23 GMT -6
Also, if I can't take grotesques... that means I have to use slyth right? I don't think we have many options for wrapping an HQ unit outside of slyth or maybe incubi (assuming i'm putting these chumps in a raider). Wraithblades Perhaps? The Axe and Shield combo seems like a natural best friend of the humble Succubus, bringing the AP 2, 4++, and Toughness 6 she'd really like to have. It does depend on how they rule Ynarri and transports though. Technically its all the same faction, but also not *shrug* |
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mike
Butts
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Post by mike on Feb 13, 2017 14:13:40 GMT -6
Wraithblades Perhaps? The Axe and Shield combo seems like a natural best friend of the humble Succubus, bringing the AP 2, 4++, and Toughness 6 she'd really like to have. It does depend on how they rule Ynarri and transports though. Technically its all the same faction, but also not *shrug* Wraithblades are too bulky for their own good. Can't squeeze them and an HQ in a raider. I could WWP, but it's not really my style. |
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mike
Butts
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Post by mike on Feb 13, 2017 14:15:55 GMT -6
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Post by Nick P on Feb 13, 2017 15:08:25 GMT -6
Also, if I can't take grotesques... that means I have to use slyth right? I don't think we have many options for wrapping an HQ unit outside of slyth or maybe incubi (assuming i'm putting these chumps in a raider). Wraithblades Perhaps? The Axe and Shield combo seems like a natural best friend of the humble Succubus, bringing the AP 2, 4++, and Toughness 6 she'd really like to have. It does depend on how they rule Ynarri and transports though. Technically its all the same faction, but also not *shrug* The rules don't say that a unit has to have *all* the same faction in order to get in a transport - just that they have to have the same faction. So if a unit has 2 factions, but 1 of them is the same, you're golden. Also this is the only instance as far as I'm aware that has units with 2 factions. So its weird. But yeah Mike's right - they're bulky, so a min sized unit of 5 automatically takes up the full raider capacity. BUT! A succubus + 5 wraithblades fits into a wave serpent nicely.... |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 13, 2017 15:16:03 GMT -6
The Various 40k threads have been blowing up all weekend on about whether the "Battle Brothers can't ride in each other's transports" FAQ prevents the Ynarri from sharing vehicles. I've got no opinion on it as GW will likely give us an FAQ in 1-3 weeks. I totally forgot Wraithguard are bulky, whoops. I've always heard AP 2 has a problem for the melee Dark Eldar characters, so that was where most of the suggestion came from.
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mike
Butts
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Post by mike on Feb 13, 2017 15:35:51 GMT -6
The Various 40k threads have been blowing up all weekend on about whether the "Battle Brothers can't ride in each other's transports" FAQ prevents the Ynarri from sharing vehicles. I've got no opinion on it as GW will likely give us an FAQ in 1-3 weeks. I totally forgot Wraithguard are bulky, whoops. I've always heard AP 2 has a problem for the melee Dark Eldar characters, so that was where most of the suggestion came from. Yeah no worries. The succubus is basically our only AP2 in assault that is almost worth the points so wraithblades are a good option on that front and as a wrap. I might resort to 5 harlies in a star weaver to replace my grots, but that's a real loss in durability. |
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Post by daniel, why on Feb 16, 2017 12:57:11 GMT -6
To Madison & Nick's points about charging on a turn you arrive from reserve, I'll offer this: I think you can soulburst charge if one of your unit's dies in the enemy shooting or assault phase on the turn they arrive. But, I think you can't charge if you kill something in the shooting phase on the turn you arrive from reserve.
Here's my argument--the rules FAQ, pg 4 & 5, makes mention of some specific shooting questions. Basically, being forced to move in the opponent's phase (for disembarking from a wrecked transport, say) doesn't count as the preceding movement phase for purposes of firing heavy weapons. Also, it says you get to overwatch salvo weapons with the full, stationary profile because you didn't move in the preceding movement phase (because that was your opponent's). In both cases, the rules are referring to the player's turn, even for out-of-sequence stuff.
So the game turn versus player turn definition is really getting it's work cut out for it. Just my take on it.
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Post by 1D3chan on Feb 16, 2017 13:03:21 GMT -6
To Madison & Nick's points about charging on a turn you arrive from reserve, I'll offer this: I think you can soulburst charge if one of your unit's dies in the enemy shooting or assault phase on the turn they arrive. But, I think you can't charge if you kill something in the shooting phase on the turn you arrive from reserve. Here's my argument--the rules FAQ, pg 4 & 5, makes mention of some specific shooting questions. Basically, being forced to move in the opponent's phase (for disembarking from a wrecked transport, say) doesn't count as the preceding movement phase for purposes of firing heavy weapons. Also, it says you get to overwatch salvo weapons with the full, stationary profile because you didn't move in the preceding movement phase (because that was your opponent's). In both cases, the rules are referring to the player's turn, even for out-of-sequence stuff. So the game turn versus player turn definition is really getting it's work cut out for it. Just my take on it. Yes, your thought process is correct RAW and is also the most popular leaning, as far as I can tell, of the community as a whole. Your turn, no charge. Their turn, yes charge. You are a very smart man, you should start your PhD! |
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