|
Post by Nick P on Apr 15, 2015 8:23:06 GMT -6
PPS: Windrider host + Seer Council + DE allies = fucking amazing. 3 farseers, 2 warlock councils, and 3 units of star cannon bikes. God I'm going to be so poor.
|
|
|
Post by Joelercoaster on Apr 15, 2015 8:54:04 GMT -6
All bikes all day. Pretty excite.
Real Q, though... what about the Vyper makes it so stinky-bad? I mean, comparing to the DE Venom, which is a boat the people base entire lists off of, it seems fairly on par.
Obvsies it's its own tanky thing, and not a transport (so no ObSec through troops), but it has the benefit of having actual weapon options. No FF, but access to holofields and other upgrades (though they get expensive). I'm moderately sure the base (2 shuricannons, as a baseline) is about the same cost as a Venom? 6 S6 "rending" vs a bunch of poison shots... really the same wound output... but with "rending".
I mean, the Venom definitely has some benefits, not the least of which being that it's an add-on rather than "just use your FA, thanks"... but to have one be super-hate and one be uber-fun? Seems a bit disjointed to me.
|
|
|
Post by Nick P on Apr 15, 2015 10:06:15 GMT -6
I think the problem is that the Vyper is heavy support, iirc. So there's literally no reason to take them ever.
But yeah, double shuricannons isn't a bad thing, can work decent anti-light vehicle duty, clear small chaff units, and threaten small elite units with "rending" as well. We'll see if they move slots to Fast, or if the options get cheaper, or even just base cost cheaper - I'd love to convert some vypers out of venoms to keep the whole aesthetic the same on my end.
|
|
|
Post by clint on Apr 15, 2015 10:52:04 GMT -6
Vyper is FA, I've used 1. My impression is that they die too easily for the points and would be best in squadrons of 3, but considering the other FA choices (spiders, hawks, shining spears, flyers), they don't really fit in as they have Guardian BS.
Walkers, now there is something that you shouldn't bother using, ever. Same guns as a Vyper, but heavy support, although they do get Scout and Move Through Cover, but again, they get crowded out by the rest of the HS choices.
|
|
|
Post by Russell on Apr 15, 2015 11:20:57 GMT -6
Walkers, now there is something that you shouldn't bother using, ever. Let's not get crazy now. Heavy support is pretty full (from what I recall) but the only real auto-include was the Knight.
|
|
|
Post by Joelercoaster on Apr 15, 2015 16:43:39 GMT -6
Isn't Guardian BS the same as the rest now? As in, 4's?
Personally I love the idea of the Walkers, but that's my theory-crafting at work again. A unit of 2-3 with Lasers is putting out 8 shots each at 36", walking out from behind cover, and then battle-focusin' back like Tau. Or scouting/outflanking for side/rear armor, and other silliness.
|
|
|
Post by jefferestinpeace on Apr 15, 2015 17:00:36 GMT -6
Wait, you guys are talking War Walkers like they aren't incredible? I don't follow. I feel like they are a competent part of the meta right now, if you aren't spamming Wave Serpents. Outflanking 3 is fucked up.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 15, 2015 17:31:09 GMT -6
Wait, you guys are talking War Walkers like they aren't incredible? I don't follow. I feel like they are a competent part of the meta right now, if you aren't spamming Wave Serpents. Outflanking 3 is fucked up. I've got to agree. War Walkers bring a ton of pressure on turn 1, or reliable firepower that outflanks into the back field. They are the definition of Glass Hammer.
|
|
|
Post by Russell on Apr 15, 2015 17:44:32 GMT -6
uh, i love war walkers. i want 6.
|
|
|
Post by jefferestinpeace on Apr 15, 2015 21:48:09 GMT -6
Seriously, you find a Skyfire Nexus with a unit of War Walkers and your opponent goes 2-2 at Adepticon.
|
|
|
Post by Joelercoaster on Apr 16, 2015 6:38:03 GMT -6
So who wants to help me convert some war walkers?
My idea for the past forever has been the same sort of upper canopy (could just use the model, or bash something out of Ravager sponsons, "glass" canopies, and love), and 3 legs... similar in feel to the necron walkers, but less necron-y and more spikey-death-y.
Granted, some other heavy could steal my heart in the new book, but the walkers, I think, fit in pretty well (AV10 with a "flickerfield") to the army and add some otherwise completely lacking mass S6. Them plus spiders will be makin' a lot of things cry.
|
|
|
Post by englishchris on Apr 16, 2015 6:45:16 GMT -6
So it seems as though eldar can still be broken, just in a different way (bikes and wraiths).
|
|
|
Post by Nick P on Apr 16, 2015 7:03:02 GMT -6
Updates from the far away land of rumors:
All distortion weapons are now D weapons, including for Vauls Wrath batteries and Wraithguard, even the hemlock fighter. It seems pretty clear now that instead of being just straight up D strength weapons though, instead of being Instant Death on a roll of 6 to wound, you roll on the D table on a roll of 6 to wound - so at BS4, a model has a 1.67% chance to roll a hit, a 6 to wound, and then a further 6 to suck said model into the warp.
Not nearly as bad as what people were initially thinking, that everything was just straight up Strength D, at range, to just murder everything.
But, the move for the Wraithknight to Gargantuan Creature means it now has FnP, can shoot different targets, can take 4 weapons and fire them all, and can move, run twice, or run once and shoot once, or shoot everything and not run. So its really mobile, tougher to kill (poison and sniper only wound on a 6, and instant death only does D3 wounds), and has the potential for more fire power. I'm betting this thing will be closer to knight cost, 300-375.
|
|
|
Post by jefferestinpeace on Apr 16, 2015 7:10:26 GMT -6
The Agile rule that's on the Tyranid GMCs is not a stock GMC rule, so he won't get the run & shoot thing. Unless he gets Battle Focus, of course.
|
|
|
Post by Nick P on Apr 16, 2015 7:17:42 GMT -6
Oh good, so he'll only be able to run fully and also shoot fully, tight. I was worried I'd be shunned for continuing to use mine lol
FUCK GW WHAT HAVE YOU DONE
|
|