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Post by jefferestinpeace on Oct 27, 2014 15:36:16 GMT -6
Hrm. I gotta lower my expectations for this stuff. They're not bad, but I was hoping for Glottkins. Those ScyTals on the Mal look a little awkward. They look posable though, which is cool.
Why nids always gotta stick their tongues out?
They do the same chimney/spike swap as the Crone and Harpy. I have a sneaky suspicion these could have been included in the codex in January. They easily look like they were sculpted within 10 minutes of the Crone/Harpy.
Are they all going to be crushing a Space Marine? Lots of crushed SMs these days.
I like the Toxicrene better, looking forward to those 360s.
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Post by Nick P on Oct 27, 2014 15:40:22 GMT -6
Yeah but Nids are never going to be Glottkins - those are one off special characters designed to breathe new life into WHFB, these guys are supposed to be run of the mill, "take 3 or more" in an army, type models. I get it, but I see where you're coming from.
They do look posable - didn't realize it looks like there are 3 more in the background, bent down more as if ready to charge vs rearing up to attack. Probably can sculpt the mouth closed, but we'll see. 360s on friday, can't wait!
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Post by jefferestinpeace on Oct 27, 2014 15:53:06 GMT -6
Yeah, I don't want to be a hater--I mean, it's new fucking Nids--but I would love to get just one really killer sculpt outside of FW right now. However, the entire Nid identity is based on genetic uniformity and all that, so I'd imagine that it's a little difficult to get super cool uniqueness without any purity seal bling and even basic iconography. Even with the Dima, it's a cool freaking model, but the chest thing is a bit sloppy, which is where it probably naturally ends up when trying to think outside the box.
Keep in mind, I'm saying all this obviously scultping beautiful alien-esque miniatures in my home studio with ease, but if you even take a look at the Astra Militarum box... damn. Those are beautiful little models. These are cool, but hardly unexpected. I mean, we don't even really have anything screaming "psyker" on those Mals, unless there's a big glowing brain coming out its ass.
But really, NEW NIDS.
Rules by Hitler.
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Post by jefferestinpeace on Oct 27, 2014 16:10:09 GMT -6
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Post by jefferestinpeace on Oct 27, 2014 16:13:35 GMT -6
I do like his beefy gauntlets though.
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Post by Nick P on Oct 27, 2014 16:14:37 GMT -6
I think the psychic stuff on the Mals are little brain membranes where the toxic sacs on the Crene are located. But, shitty instagram picture, so maybe wrong.
I totally agree with you - they never really try for anything outside the box (crones are flying carnifexes, exocrines are bulkier carnifexes, terronofexes are...bulkier bulky carnifexes, etc.). These continue that theme...apart from the sweet plastic kthulu head and the plastic lash whip arms (impossible to get outside of the hive tyrant box till now, and impossible to get in pairs till now), these just look like big, mean, carnifexes.
I also fully agree with you on the dima - freaking cool, but man, what the hell is going on with the t rex claws? And the tongue-hands? And the weird chest-stomach thing? Just...what? That's what you came up with? I mean, ok...fine. At least the rules are really good.
So far, the rumors on this thing are kinda crap...so really hoping something in the WD comes to light that makes these really shine. I'm getting one regardless, hell even just for the sweet bits, but would love it if it made sense to use it in actual games. The psychic one seems ok, if it really does target 3 different units with each casting...but otherwise, the psychic stuff seems kinda worthless...and for 200 points no less, in our already crowded heavy or elite slots.
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Post by Nick P on Oct 27, 2014 16:17:48 GMT -6
Yeah, might do something more creative with them. Love the gauntlets too. Also, looks like cutting out his tongue won't be too tough - the jaws are practically closed anyways. I don't see how it was positioned more hunched over though, at least from these photos...kinda makes me wonder if there's not a third unit in the kit, with a different set of forelimbs or backlimbs to facilitate the more crouched position in the background of the first pics?
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Post by Joelercoaster on Oct 27, 2014 16:17:53 GMT -6
As much as I love pretty models, and I do... it's the only thing that keeps pulling me back to Nids these days... I have to see the rules before I get excited. Are we looking at just another WS3 A3 T6 bug that can't chew it's way through a dreadnaught?
Gah... every time I see this stuff, it makes me feel like a min-max power gamer, which I really strive to not be. "Sure it's gorgeous, but how's it work on the table?". But these days, it's a legit question when it comes to big bugs...
It'd take a lot to get me to open my wallet for it. I already have hundreds of points worth of Tyranid shelf decorations as it is, no matter how pretty they are.
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Post by jefferestinpeace on Oct 27, 2014 16:20:03 GMT -6
If the psychic one were not in Elites, you could build a killer psychic bug list. Unfortunately, I think Zoans will be more effective at doing what this thing is supposed to do, and they really aren't all that reliable.
Ugh, if they were heavy though? Just grab Zoans for extra psychic dice and plunk three of those on the table for 9 of those big shots a turn.
Oh man, I think I just figured out what GW wants us to do with these--- spam them in threes. We don't know exactly how it works, but it sounds like 3 shots for 3 psychic tests per model, but at 3 different targets. With three of them, you can shoot the same thing. At probably 600+ points.
STOP SPECULATING JEFF. YOU'RE MOST LIKELY REALLY WRONG.
Hail Cthulu Hitler.
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Post by Nick P on Oct 27, 2014 16:25:25 GMT -6
As much as I love pretty models, and I do... it's the only thing that keeps pulling me back to Nids these days... I have to see the rules before I get excited. Are we looking at just another WS3 A3 T6 bug that can't chew it's way through a dreadnaught? Gah... every time I see this stuff, it makes me feel like a min-max power gamer, which I really strive to not be. "Sure it's gorgeous, but how's it work on the table?". But these days, it's a legit question when it comes to big bugs... It'd take a lot to get me to open my wallet for it. I already have hundreds of points worth of Tyranid shelf decorations as it is, no matter how pretty they are. If rumors are to be believed, its WS3 S6 T6 A4 W5, with a 4+/5++. 5 Attacks would be awesome (plus 1 for 2 paired CCWs), and S6 is decent enough...but man, why wouldn't something larger than a carnifex be stronger (or at least AS strong as) a carnifex? Would love to get 6 attacks (plus HoW) on the charge at S9 with these bad boys...but sigh, it seems not to be. Unless the stats are all wrong, which they very well could be. Why give something that is meant to be anti-psyker better combat ability than most of our combat monsters? DANGIT GW WHY
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Post by Joelercoaster on Oct 27, 2014 16:59:49 GMT -6
Eh, Fexen are about our smallest MC these days, despite being the strongest. Logic.
So a ground based MC with a 4+ save? Cool. That'll last all of 2 turns on the table, if you're lucky. Sheesh. The 5++ looks great, until you realize how blatantly easy it is to have a cover save equal or better to that, so it's largely moot. Let's be real, kids. I mean, even a Heavy Bolter is a legit threat to this thing. Sigh.
T6 = AV10 (with pro's/con's for armor vs toughness). Ie, basically AS BAD AS IT CAN POSSIBLY BE for a "tank". In fairness we do have the benefit of an above-average "hull point" score. But... how many players pay 150-ish points for an AV10 anything?
Siiiiiiigghhh.... it just... makes me sad. Time to go focus on DE again. Momp.
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Post by jefferestinpeace on Oct 27, 2014 17:37:05 GMT -6
Also, I know it's just rumors, but the reported rules for the Maleceptor's psychic shooting thing say it can't "target the same model twice."
So just target that motherfucker three times, right?
FU GW & HITLER
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Post by jefferestinpeace on Oct 27, 2014 20:33:32 GMT -6
Buzz's girlfriend... woof
Toxicrene 160-ish pts (Heavy Choice, unit composition: 1)
WS BS S T W I A Ld Sv 3 3 5 6 5 3 6 8 4+
Special rules Fearless, Instinctive behavior (feed), Poisoned 2+, Shrouded, Hypertoxic (6's to wound inflicted by poisoned weapons whether in combat and in shooting= instant death)
Weapons/Biomorphs Acid Blood, Choking cloud, Lash whips, Toxic miasma
Choking cloud Rng S AP Type 12" 3 - Assault 1, Ignores cover, Large Blast, Poisoned 2+, Hypertoxic, Predatory sentience (Gets armorbane against open topped vehicles and vehicles that have already lost one or more hull points)
Maleceptor 205-ish points (Elites Choice, unit composition: 1)
WS BS S T W I A Ld Sv 3 3 6 6 5 3 3 10 4+
Special rules Psyker (lv 2) Shadow in the warp Synapse Creature
Weapons/Biomorphs Scything talons
Powers Maleceptor always knows Psychic Overload and must generate the remainder of its powers from the Hive Mind chart
Psychic Overload: Warp charge 2. Focused Witchfire. Range 24". Target must take a Ld test on 3d6 (Vehicles can be affected as well and count as having Ld 10 for the attack). If the test is failed the target takes d3 wounds no armor/cover saves allowed. Vehicles that fail take a glancing hit with no cover allowed. The psyker may attempt to manifest this power up to 3 times in each of its psychic phases. Each attempt must be resolved separately. However a single enemy unit cannot be the target of Psychic Overload more than once a psychic phase.
Malefactor is trash, Toxicrene actually ok, if you can get it into combat.
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Post by Joelercoaster on Oct 27, 2014 20:54:55 GMT -6
6 attacks sounds tasty, but at WS3 you're not really looking to cause that much damage. It's a reliable 3 wounds, which isn't nothing... it's a Trygon with a Reaper, without Fleet, lower WS/I, and less points. Still (usually) rolling with a 3+ save.
Another "combat MC" that's not even fleet, though. Wonder if you can buy Adrenals for it? Our codex is, honestly, pretty full of creatures that are actually pretty rock solid *once in combat*. They all share the laughably mediocre ability of actually getting there, however. Nothing new to see here, citizens.
The shooting... meh. More likely to take you out of assault range than anything truly effective. Granted an ignores cover large blast is never bad, but at that range? Limited. As IgCov should be, especially when it's wounding on a 2+. The armorbane is pretty lackluster, considering how hard it will be to hit any real armor with it.
Agreed, more or less, on the psyker. The forced power is pretty much just bad. Let me rephrase. There is no reason that any of the Nid powers should be WC2. It's not even that good at WC1, in theory. You'd use it, but not over Catalyst in most cases. And focusing a WC2? Sure, you can cast it 3 times, but you barely have the dice to get it off once. Congrats.
Sigh. Sorry, kids, but I'll be passing on these "great new things".
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Post by Nick P on Oct 27, 2014 22:18:39 GMT -6
I despise the new psychic mechanic, with every fiber of my being. It's convoluted, un intuitive, and frankly it smacks of "my first games development job" (trademark pending). Not only that but it also conveniently prevents Shadows from being a useful tool. I just want to play seventh with 6th's psychic LD tests instead.
/rant
That being said, the maleceptor is still a rock solid synapse platform. And actually adds to your psychic dice for your zoans or tyrants to use. Meh, I see it acting as a midfield synapse node, with auto-dominion, and hopefully catalyst or onslaught.
I like the toxicrene for its attacks, and for 2+ poison that IDs on a 6. I see this as our new monster killer, so I can finally take my bone sword hive tyrant and give him dual devourers. Thanks GW!
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