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Post by Nick P on Nov 27, 2017 9:04:45 GMT -6
Lets talk Crons. Who has played against them, with them? What works and doesn't? Apparently people are down on them, but I love the army and want to dust mine off. Plus I got a nice shiny new command barge/annihilation barge - what do you guys think is the best way to run that?
What do we think about warriors? Big blobs or MSU? The reanimation protocol mechanic seems to favor larger squads, but with crypteks and ghost arks and res orbs galore, it doesn't seem like losing 10 in a turn is all that likely.
And the age old question - tesla or gauss? They seem pretty even to me, with tesla winning out against anything that's not a 2+ save, but my math might be off.
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Post by Eric formerly Eric on Nov 27, 2017 9:27:44 GMT -6
Here's my perspective as someone who's played several games against them. Effective: 1. Big warrior blobs with a nearby cryptek. It's really hard to kill 20 warriors in a turn, and even more demoralizing when 10 of them are reanimated the next turn. With ap-1 weapons, they're effective against anything. 2. Vehicles. That automantic shielding ability is nuts and super anti-meta. I usually line up a bunch of lascannons to blow up armor but goddamn is it frustrating to see my 4+ damage shots getting completely ignored.
Not effective: Combat, especially with characters. Lychguard shields got nerfed to 4++, and I haven't seen necrons characters do anything worthwhile in combat, even if they are equipped for it. (Frankly, I'm all for nerfing invulns, but it seems that no other invulns got nerfed. In fact, harlis and nids got more of them.)
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Post by Nick P on Nov 27, 2017 9:50:30 GMT -6
Balls, so kitting out 2 destroyer lords with warscythes is a bad idea then? And canoptek wraiths are no longer an effective crowd control unit?
But it sounds like getting some more warriors is a good idea - I've only got 20, so was planning on running 1 unit of 20 or 2 units of 10, in addition to immortals for my troop slots. I have a couple crypteks, so planned on using them as well - and then either my catacomb command barge or my destroyer lords (with 3 untis of destroyers for them to buff).
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doubleback
novice
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Posts: 1,262
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Post by doubleback on Nov 27, 2017 10:29:13 GMT -6
Played two games now, and while I think they their problems are manageable, and more importantly will be fixed in their codex, I just did not find them to be a fun, dynamic army to play. Here are my issues with them-
- Slow - These guys make Death Guard look fast. For an army that lives and dies on rapid fire, its really hard to get in range - CC - Piggybacking on this issue, even when you get an enemy in rapid fire range, they charge you the next turn. There are a lot of things to like about the new reanimation rules, but the necron warrior close combat tar-pit is largely dead due to it. I competent CC force can simply kill you much faster than you regenerate, whereas a 3+ fnp could keep you up against even the most tenacious opponent for a few turns. The changes to the overlord kit made this even worse, since we lost our one strong counter punch. - Models - This is unquestioningly a personal gripe, but suddenly all the models that were horrible last edition are incredibly necessary now. Suddenly the artillery options are some of our best stuff due to our terrible movement, and I own none of them. Again though, I recognize this is more of a personal issue. - Bikes - FIX THE GOD DAMNED BIKES...what the fuck is wrong with you people...its like you duck taped two Immortals together and then tripled the price. - Special Characters - They seem either overpriced or underwhelming, and sometimes both simultaneously - Psychic Powers - We cannot deny the witch or dampen powers, we really need Pariahs or some equivalent to help us in an edition where even smite can be a game changer.
That said, here are some of the positives
- Monolith - Expensive as hell, but tough as nails and mean as shit, fun to have this back on the table! - Teleportation - If you are willing to build your list around this, it can make your movement very unpredictable and helps mitigate our slow movement - Psychic Powers - Ours can't be blocked either (though are "Psychers" are way more expensive and limited in number) - Character Rules - Good luck gunning down my C'tan now. - Snipers - Ours are hilarious, mobile, deadly, and cheap. Thank god I bought a ton of them on Ebay when they were meh. I honestly thing I could kill Guilliman with enough of them. In an edition where deep strike is a game changer, they are your insurance policy. - Quantum Shielding - Bananas. -Troops - boring but very point effective if you can keep them out of CC - Flayed Ones - New Hotness - Artillery - Scary as hell when left to its own devices (see flayed ones) -Night Scythe - Easy to kill, but it can literally put Flayed ones on top of you, which ruins people's days...jsut don't count on it doing much afterwards. - Teleportation reserves - Since all out teleport vehicles draw form the same reserve, having a monolith AND a nigh Scythe gives you a ton of flexibility on where to have things pop up.
These aside, the army just feels very one note in the same way Orks do, without the hilarious crashes and cockney accents. The only real competitive way to play seems to be to bring tons of troops up front, buff them with a Cryptek and an Overlord, and hope they can damage/protect your awesome artillery long enough for it to bring down the enemy. You can throw in some random teleport drops, but nothing we can drop outside of Flayed ones really seems that effective in the backfield unless your opponent literally kept no melee units back there to guard (a mistake neither of my opponents made when they saw my reserves). Even the immortals I dropped were either dropped too far out to be effective in order to keep them safe, or were dropped in next turn charge range and either tar-pitted by a cheap screen or slaughtered by competent CC. You can definitely win with Necrons, but I just found their play style to be kind of boring. That said, I am definitely not looking to unload mine until I see a codex, because I think all of the negatives are fairly easily fixed.
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doubleback
novice
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Posts: 1,262
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Post by doubleback on Nov 27, 2017 10:36:37 GMT -6
Balls, so kitting out 2 destroyer lords with warscythes is a bad idea then? And canoptek wraiths are no longer an effective crowd control unit? But it sounds like getting some more warriors is a good idea - I've only got 20, so was planning on running 1 unit of 20 or 2 units of 10, in addition to immortals for my troop slots. I have a couple crypteks, so planned on using them as well - and then either my catacomb command barge or my destroyer lords (with 3 untis of destroyers for them to buff). More warriors is both good and necessary, and its a lot harder to take down the Ghost Arks, though they are much less effective transports now that warriors can't fire out. Still great though. Destroyers are very Meh in this edition given their cost, and given the changes to reanimation and cover. They are just to easy to shoot off the board given their small unit size and lack of fnp. If you can't jump them totally out of LoS, then they are usually toast. I think Wraiths are still good, but they are not the godlike monstrosities that they were in an edition where we are much more in need of a godlike monstrosity. That also said, I think the two named C'Tans are totally worth the price. Stick em in a blob of warriors and they are a combination 7th Ed. Overlord and an artillery piece in one. Its hard not to want to bring both.
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Post by Nick P on Nov 27, 2017 11:04:50 GMT -6
So my next purchases are likely going to be more warriors, maybe more destroyers just to get my units up in size so they can be more effective (and hoping they get better in the codex), and...like...ctan I guess?
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jesse
neophyte
Posts: 732
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Post by jesse on Nov 27, 2017 11:18:12 GMT -6
What are those toughness five guys with two wounds and scythes? Those dudes are terrifying.
Warrior blobs are not that hard to kill (both times I've played them I've had little trouble killing 20 a turn, one game doing it in back to back turns), but are necessary since fewer are even easier to kill.
The flyer with Tesla cannons (or whatever) seem hard to kill but are easy to ignore.
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Post by Nick P on Nov 27, 2017 11:37:33 GMT -6
lychguard and triarch praetorians are both T5 W2 - lychguard can take warscythes making them S7 AP-4 D2 in combat, and praetorians have rods of covenant which are S5 AP-3 D1 in both shooting and combat. Praetorians are my preferred elite since they move 10" and can shoot as well as fight, and they autopass morale tests. Maybe I'll pick up more of those to get a bit better close combat in my list.
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jesse
neophyte
Posts: 732
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Post by jesse on Nov 27, 2017 11:47:27 GMT -6
I meant the lychguard, though it might just be a fluke since my army excels at short range, high volume, low strength shooting with little to no AP or short range, low volume, high damage shooting, neither of which is ideal for taking out a blob of ten such dudes in one round.
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doubleback
novice
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Posts: 1,262
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Post by doubleback on Nov 27, 2017 12:09:00 GMT -6
So my next purchases are likely going to be more warriors, maybe more destroyers just to get my units up in size so they can be more effective (and hoping they get better in the codex), and...like...ctan I guess? I honestly think they will. Necrons don't have the deep catalog of units older forces do, so to keep them competitive you can't make something central like destroyers crappy. I really have high hopes for the codex
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Post by Nick P on Nov 27, 2017 14:19:04 GMT -6
Me too man, especially after Nids - they really did us justice in that one I feel like, and can't wait to see what they do for Dark Eldar and Necrons as well.
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Post by Eric formerly Eric on Nov 27, 2017 14:33:49 GMT -6
So given Jesse's input, i wouldn't overreact and go buy anything just because it's "good". Cause good against marines maybe be terrible against nids, etc. I'm sure destroyers will be fine (and dont they have fly? Thats clutch when most necrons can be easily tarpitted). Monoliths are fun though. T8 18w is really good against certain armies in this edition (ie. Index nids)
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Post by Nick P on Nov 27, 2017 16:09:18 GMT -6
I'm not running off to buy things that are "good", I'm running off to buy things that I already have and want to flesh out because they aren't trash lol
I've already got 5 praetorians and 9 destroyers, so fleshing out to 10 and 12 (so I can do 3 units of 4 or 2 units of 6 for added staying power) seems like a good idea just to have more options in my list building. Likewise I'll probably grab another 3 or 4 tomb blades to give me 7-8 total to work with when list building.
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doubleback
novice
I rock harder than most, yet less hard than some.
Posts: 1,262
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Post by doubleback on Nov 27, 2017 17:29:37 GMT -6
Me too man, especially after Nids - they really did us justice in that one I feel like, and can't wait to see what they do for Dark Eldar and Necrons as well. As the new Xeno codexs come out I am getting hopeful about Orks as well. I am a big believer that the later a codex comes out, the better it is (and I think Necrons in 7th back that up)
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Post by Nick P on Nov 28, 2017 8:42:30 GMT -6
They announced last week at warhammer fest that they were doing a new FAQ schedule as well - that they wouldn't be releasing codex FAQs right away anymore since they were getting a bunch of flak from the community about changing the rules so quickly and invalidating people's recent purchases (cough - commissar - cough).
So now they are only doing I think 2 FAQs a year - one in the summer, and then one right before chapter approved. So this could be good or bad - if xenos codexes come out in February, they will have till the summer to be either really good or really bad, without any quick fixes. If they come out closer to the FAQ, then they'll be fixed right away but also could invalidate some purchases. Idk how I feel about it.
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