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Post by Eric formerly Eric on Nov 7, 2017 12:31:30 GMT -6
Nice. I've got a raven and a talon but the heresy flyers are definitely the best
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doubleback
novice
I rock harder than most, yet less hard than some.
Posts: 1,262
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Post by doubleback on Nov 7, 2017 12:39:48 GMT -6
DG have some fairly bizarre restrictions on vehicles and troops, so I have to dip in FW and find things that can have a mark assigned to them
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Post by Eric formerly Eric on Nov 7, 2017 15:37:50 GMT -6
I've been taking another look at the marine strategems and while they certainly arent as great as some of the newer codexes, there are some that look pretty tasty for my army (and other gunlines)
Masterful marksman (1) sternguard +1 to wound Auspex scan (2) an infantry unit can shoot at an enemy that just deepstruck within 12" Armor of contempt (1) vehicle ignores mortal wounds on a 5+ for the phase
There are a couple that could also be good, but they are redundant for my list.
Only in death and honour the chapter seem great for big close combat squads/characters
Scions of guilliman and wisdom of the ancients are great for units not near a captain. I could beef up my vanguard squad and go hunting with the contemptor providing rerolls.
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doubleback
novice
I rock harder than most, yet less hard than some.
Posts: 1,262
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Post by doubleback on Nov 7, 2017 16:29:41 GMT -6
Are you 100% committed to UMs, or are you considering some battle forged additions?
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Post by Eric formerly Eric on Nov 7, 2017 16:44:26 GMT -6
I'm 100% committed. It's not even that i care about my "fluff". Just with all these new chapter tactics, legion traits, fleet adaptations, i hate how everybody is utilizing them in complete flux or taking multiple legions. It's not the spirit of the game. Pick an army and stick with it. If you painted your army blue and gold, they're either ultramarines, or theyre a successor chapter you made up. But don't tell me that theyre ultramarines one day, and the next day, the devastators are suddenly raven guard while the vanguard vets are black templars. Saying that "my army fluff is that theyre adaptable, so they get access to all the bonuses from all the armies" is bullshit. Its the "my favorite super power is the power to have every superpower". It's one fucking army. Dont game the system. Rant over.
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Post by rogerspacem on Nov 7, 2017 17:29:16 GMT -6
(slow applause which gradually builds up)
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Post by rogerspacem on Nov 7, 2017 17:35:25 GMT -6
Once I get on my actual computer I'll take a look over your list but I guess work out your plan for it. Like why 8 sternguard? What's their purpose in the army. Also I noticed one of your tactical marines is only carrying plasma while the other is just using bolters. Walk me through your list.
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Post by Eric formerly Eric on Nov 7, 2017 18:03:30 GMT -6
So its a full squad of 10. And theres 1 plasma, 1 combiplas. The only squad that isnt 5 or 10 is the 8-man tactical and that was because of points. The sternguard are in there due to their 30" range, ap-2 and +1 to wound strategem. I dont have too much anti infantry fire support besides bolter tacticals, which are there to bubblewrap. Plasma tacs give addition anti TEC/MEC and can hop in a razorback to go for an objective.
Main firebase is Las vehicles and missile devs. That's 8 Las shots and 3 missiles rerolling hits and 1s to wound. Plus the raven has 4 missiles. And the contemptor is riding with him to go bash the enemy backfield.
Vanguard are cheap and can deep strike, ride in the raven or jump around.
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Post by rogerspacem on Nov 7, 2017 18:15:37 GMT -6
Vanguard can take jump jets then?
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Post by Eric formerly Eric on Nov 7, 2017 18:34:35 GMT -6
So vanguard vets are the veteran version of assault marines. +1 attack and +1 leadership for only 2 extra points. Plus they can all take melee weapons.
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Post by rogerspacem on Nov 7, 2017 21:29:28 GMT -6
+ Flyer +Stormraven Gunship [15 PL, 307pts]: Twin assault cannon, Two Hurricane Bolters, Two Stormstrike Missile Launchers, Typhoon missile launcher ++ Vanguard Detachment +1CP (Imperium - Space Marines) [36 PL, 568pts] +++ HQ +Captain [6 PL, 97pts]: Jump Pack, Power sword + Elites +Contemptor Dreadnought [8 PL, 165pts]: Combi-bolter, Dreadnought combat weapon, Kheres pattern assault cannon Sternguard Veteran Squad [14 PL, 180pts]. Space Marine Veteran: Special issue boltgun . Space Marine Veteran: Special issue boltgun . Space Marine Veteran: Special issue boltgun . Space Marine Veteran: Special issue boltgun . Space Marine Veteran: Special issue boltgun . Space Marine Veteran: Special issue boltgun . Space Marine Veteran: Special issue boltgun . Space Marine Veteran: Special issue boltgun . Space Marine Veteran: Special issue boltgun . Veteran Sergeant: Special issue boltgun Vanguard Veteran Squad [8 PL, 126pts]: Jump Pack . Space Marine Veteran: Bolt Pistol & Chainsword . Space Marine Veteran: Bolt Pistol & Chainsword . Space Marine Veteran: 2x Lightning Claw . Space Marine Veteran: 2x Lightning Claw . Veteran Sergeant: 2x Lightning Claw ++ Total: [111 PL, 1995pts] 9 command points total (+2 from calgar) I agree with what is in the back field firing away. Back field:- Lieutenant: Master-crafted boltgun - Marneus Calgar -Terminator Armour- Devastator Squad [8 PL, 140pts]. Space Marine . Space Marine Sergeant . Space Marine w/Heavy Weapon: Missile launcher . Space Marine w/Heavy Weapon: Missile launcher . Space Marine w/Heavy Weapon: Missile launcher - Predator [9 PL, 190pts]: Twin lascannon, Two Lascannons - Razorback [5 PL, 115pts]: Twin lascannon - Razorback [5 PL, 115pts]: Twin lascannon However I'm not a fan of your screen. If I am right this is your screen, that I am seeing. You did mention that your stormraven will be in front, which is fine first turn, but what if you opponent holds back that turn. I don't see him/her dropping everything if your line is holding up. But will the Intercessor squad and the 8 marine squad be enough coverage to protect your line for another turn once your storm raven moves up? screen:Intercessor Squad [5 PL, 100pts]: Bolt rifle, 4x Intercessor, Intercessor Sergeant Tactical Squad [9 PL, 104pts]: 7x Space Marine, Space Marine Sergeant If I am understanding their purpose here, you got the dreadnought and stern in the bird while captain and vents are in the sky ready to drop in. Your dread is a big distraction carnifex while your stern jump out and provide anti horde firepower (with the strat up). The captain will provide his support bubble to both the storm raven, dread, and the sternguard. The vanguard drop in and try to make a charge. It's not bad. I do enjoy the dread being ferried over to be right in front of your opponent. The Stern with 20 shots at ap-2 shots that wound on 4's +1 isn't bad at all for 1 CP, however, you will only be able to do this once. It's a one trick pony. The Vanguard is a good idea, to be used as an anti infantry, but it's only 3 sets of claws. If they fail their charge then they are just kinda sitting there for a turn (granted you still have a dreadnought and 10 man squad of stern in your opponent's face). Interceptors/Punchers of the face: Stormraven- Captain [6 PL, 97pts]: Jump Pack, Power sword Contemptor Dreadnought: Combi-bolter, Dreadnought combat weapon, Kheres pattern assault cannon Sternguard Veteran Squad Special Issue Boltgun Vanguard Veteran Squad [8 PL, 126pts]: Jump Pack . Space Marine Veteran: Bolt Pistol & Chainsword . Space Marine Veteran: Bolt Pistol & Chainsword . Space Marine Veteran: 2x Lightning Claw . Space Marine Veteran: 2x Lightning Claw . Veteran Sergeant: 2x Lightning Claw Overall: I think your list is actually pretty fun. It's spread out to do a few things, granted there are a few units kinda just there. I do have a few recommendations, but got to ask did you manage to play with this list yet? If not try it out, obviously. My changes would be: 1) I would drop claws on vanguard. Give them all Power Swords for that good ole AP-3 action. You will lose extra attacks, but at least they won't cost as much and do a decent amount of damage if left alone. 2) You can keep the Intercessor squad (i guess still can't think of an objective for them but to hold and defend your gun line/ objective), however, make x2 tactical squads bare bones. So you have your intercessors out front, and the two bare bone tacticals protecting your flank. THEN you have another two squads of tacticals both having a combi-plasma and a plasma gun. These guys will most likely hide in your razorbacks. So in case someone breaks into your lines, you have a decent answer for them. Otherwise these two new squads can run across the battlefield to hold objectives. 3) have your captain drop the power sword, but instead carry an Thunder hammer storm shield. It will cost you around 129 points, but honestly he will punch hard and provides a good counter charge against big targets or small squads. Plus you can drop him in between your units to provide everyone a good re-roll bubble. Still tell me your thoughts.
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Post by Eric formerly Eric on Nov 7, 2017 22:47:51 GMT -6
Thanks for the feedback. General reponse to it all: its hard to fit everything under 2000. My screen is only the tacticals and intercessors because i ran out of points. I also dont have a ton of anti infantry or anti horde at the moment, so i was flirting with bikers but couldnt find the points. Captain only has a sword cause i ran out of points.
So the plasma tacticals, sternguard and vanguard are all "flex" squads. I'll adjust their deployment based on my opponent. The upside to vanguards over bikes is that deployment flexibility. I put intercessors in the screen cause they have more wounds/point when up against infantry like genestealers or ork boys.
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Post by Eric formerly Eric on Nov 7, 2017 23:06:48 GMT -6
This type of list building is fun in part due to the game theory. If im playing a combat army that charges forward, I'll want to bear the brunt of the attack while killing off big hitters and any backfield force multipliers with focused plasma or vanguard vets.
If I play against a gunline, I'll want to mess with their target priority while tying down their big guns and controlling the board.
If im playing a board control army, I'll want to exploit any vulnerabilities left by thinning out their forces.
So im essentially trying to create a gunline that has the ability to become mobile and can deal with any threat. The storm raven helps with that with mobility and crazy anti infantry.
But the other thing to realize is I have 9 command points with the ability to regain them on a 5+ (warlord trait). So i will average around 13.5 points per game.
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Post by rogerspacem on Nov 7, 2017 23:08:18 GMT -6
strange... my battle scribe told me it was possible to fit everything in there, including what i recommended. Maybe my scribe is wrong. I'll look it up again.
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Post by rogerspacem on Nov 7, 2017 23:09:47 GMT -6
++ Battalion Detachment +3CP (Imperium - Space Marines) [109 PL, 1996pts] +++ No Force Org Slot +**Chapter Selection**: Ultramarines + HQ +Captain [6 PL, 129pts]: Jump Pack, Storm shield, Thunder hammer Lieutenants [4 PL, 63pts]. Lieutenant: Chainsword, Master-crafted boltgun Marneus Calgar [10 PL, 200pts]: Terminator Armour + Troops +Intercessor Squad [5 PL, 100pts]: Bolt rifle, 4x Intercessor, Intercessor Sergeant Tactical Squad [5 PL, 93pts]. 3x Space Marine . Space Marine Sergeant: Chainsword, Combi-plasma . Space Marine w/Special Weapon: Plasma gun Tactical Squad [5 PL, 93pts]. 3x Space Marine . Space Marine Sergeant: Chainsword, Combi-plasma . Space Marine w/Special Weapon: Plasma gun Tactical Squad [5 PL, 65pts]. 4x Space Marine . Space Marine Sergeant: Boltgun, Chainsword Tactical Squad [5 PL, 65pts]. 4x Space Marine . Space Marine Sergeant: Boltgun, Chainsword + Elites +Contemptor Dreadnought [8 PL, 165pts]: Combi-bolter, Dreadnought combat weapon, Kheres pattern assault cannon Sternguard Veteran Squad [14 PL, 180pts]. Space Marine Veteran: Special issue boltgun . Space Marine Veteran: Special issue boltgun . Space Marine Veteran: Special issue boltgun . Space Marine Veteran: Special issue boltgun . Space Marine Veteran: Special issue boltgun . Space Marine Veteran: Special issue boltgun . Space Marine Veteran: Special issue boltgun . Space Marine Veteran: Special issue boltgun . Space Marine Veteran: Special issue boltgun . Veteran Sergeant: Chainsword, Special issue boltgun Vanguard Veteran Squad [8 PL, 110pts]: Jump Pack . Space Marine Veteran: Bolt pistol, Power sword . Space Marine Veteran: Bolt pistol, Power sword . Space Marine Veteran: Bolt pistol, Power sword . Space Marine Veteran: Bolt pistol, Power sword . Veteran Sergeant: Bolt pistol, Power sword + Heavy Support +Predator [9 PL, 192pts]: Storm bolter, Twin lascannon, Two Lascannons + Flyer +Stormraven Gunship [15 PL, 307pts]: Twin assault cannon, Two Hurricane Bolters, Two Stormstrike Missile Launchers, Typhoon missile launcher + Dedicated Transport +Razorback [5 PL, 117pts]: Storm bolter, Twin lascannon Razorback [5 PL, 117pts]: Storm bolter, Twin lascannon ++ Total: [109 PL, 1996pts] ++Created with BattleScribe
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