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Post by Eric formerly Eric on Jul 31, 2017 7:50:59 GMT -6
Im bringing the thread back for 8th ed!
I stumbled over lots of rules this weekend. So:
1. Can units disembark from vehicles that are in combat (ie. <1" away from enemies)?
2. Can fly units move over enemy units?
3. Charging units in a 2nd story ruin: can monsters just not do it? What if the model over the base gets within an inch (ie. Trygon is like 6" tall).
Similarly, can an infantry unit not charge if there isnt room on the level for them? Ie. Enemy has 3 models taking up all the room on the 2nd floor. Since my genestealer cant fit on that level, can he not charge them?
Question 3 was pretty key in my game against tau (although i got rocked either way).
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Post by Nick P on Jul 31, 2017 8:20:34 GMT -6
1. Units can disembark from a transport that is in combat, however they have to be able to end the move >1" away from the enemy. So if you surround a vehicle, no, they can't disembark. (page 183, Transports section)
2. I was wrong in the other thread, after looking it up - yes, models with FLY can move over other models and terrain as if they were not there (page 177)
3. This one is tricky, since its kinda vague. Technically the combat rules just say to be within 1", so technically a tall monster - or a unit on the floor below another unit - can still be in combat with them as long as they are within 1".
Most games I see online, or from the first few GTs, seem to follow that rule as well - allowing trygons and dimachaerons to assault units on 2nd/3rd floors of ruins. Likewise that might solve your 2nd floor issue; if you can get the stealers to within 1" from below they can still assault.
Also, in past edition that has fallen under wobbly model syndrome - if the models have the range to get into combat, but can't fit without falling over, they still count as being there even if the models don't balance - so you just have to work it out with your opponent how many models would be able to end within 1" and then roll the combat.
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Post by Eric formerly Eric on Jul 31, 2017 9:03:02 GMT -6
1. Units can disembark from a transport that is in combat, however they have to be able to end the move >1" away from the enemy. So if you surround a vehicle, no, they can't disembark. (page 183, Transports section) 2. I was wrong in the other thread, after looking it up - yes, models with FLY can move over other models and terrain as if they were not there (page 177) 3. This one is tricky, since its kinda vague. Technically the combat rules just say to be within 1", so technically a tall monster - or a unit on the floor below another unit - can still be in combat with them as long as they are within 1". Most games I see online, or from the first few GTs, seem to follow that rule as well - allowing trygons and dimachaerons to assault units on 2nd/3rd floors of ruins. Likewise that might solve your 2nd floor issue; if you can get the stealers to within 1" from below they can still assault. Also, in past edition that has fallen under wobbly model syndrome - if the models have the range to get into combat, but can't fit without falling over, they still count as being there even if the models don't balance - so you just have to work it out with your opponent how many models would be able to end within 1" and then roll the combat. Ok, I'm definitely not blaming any one thing, as I made a ton of mistakes. But damn, I got fucked on that one. The Tau player perched several units on top of buildings, so I wasn't able to charge. (It was a rough table for me, 4 bastions and a bunker tower thing). Would not have won, but it would've been closer. |
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Post by Eric formerly Eric on Jul 31, 2017 9:07:14 GMT -6
Ok, another question:
How is distance measured in this edition? Is it from the base of the model or any point of the model that is over the base?
If I am measuring distance from a model on the ground to a model on a building, how do I do that?
This is what I assume is correct:
Movement: unless FLY or special rules, must measure horizontally plus vertically at a right angle.
Shooting: must measure directly from model to model (ie the hypotenuse of the triangle).
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Post by rogerspacem on Jul 31, 2017 12:27:17 GMT -6
Ok, another question: How is distance measured in this edition? Is it from the base of the model or any point of the model that is over the base? If I am measuring distance from a model on the ground to a model on a building, how do I do that? This is what I assume is correct: Movement: unless FLY or special rules, must measure horizontally plus vertically at a right angle. Shooting: must measure directly from model to model (ie the hypotenuse of the triangle). Correct and correct. If the model has a base you measure from there. If the model doesn't have a base then it's the hull of the vehicle. For shooting you measure from base to base. Without"Fly" you measure 90 degrees. Aoe abilities usually specific how they are measure otherwise any model's area of effect radius is a cylinder. If my company master is on the first floor and u have some devs on the 3rd floor, then so long as those devs are within 6" horizontal then they are on range. |
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Post by rogerspacem on Jul 31, 2017 12:28:16 GMT -6
Also Eric keep asking questions brah, we are friendly community. Never hesitate to ask.
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Post by Nick P on Jul 31, 2017 13:04:47 GMT -6
Also Eric keep asking questions brah, we are friendly community. Never hesitate to ask. lol Eric knows we are, he's been gaming with us for years my dude |
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Post by Nick P on Jul 31, 2017 13:08:04 GMT -6
Ok, another question: How is distance measured in this edition? Is it from the base of the model or any point of the model that is over the base? If I am measuring distance from a model on the ground to a model on a building, how do I do that? This is what I assume is correct: Movement: unless FLY or special rules, must measure horizontally plus vertically at a right angle. Shooting: must measure directly from model to model (ie the hypotenuse of the triangle). You measure distances/ranges from base to base for shooting and charge range. If a model doesn't have a base, such as with many vehicles, its to the hull. Most flyers/skimmers have rules that mean you measure to the hull instead of the base even though they have both - but it must be explicit, so double check your opponent's data sheets. And yes, you're right for movement and shooting; movement = true range, ie count both vertical and horizontal distances in total. Shooting = direct range, ie shortest distance between two models (the hypotenuse). |
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Post by rogerspacem on Jul 31, 2017 13:51:14 GMT -6
Also Eric keep asking questions brah, we are friendly community. Never hesitate to ask. lol Eric knows we are, he's been gaming with us for years my dude Just reinforcing the luv brah |
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doubleback
novice
I rock harder than most, yet less hard than some.
Posts: 1,262 
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Post by doubleback on Jul 31, 2017 14:01:46 GMT -6
I was 100% sure we agreed that this was a one Eric group and he was going forward as Collin....
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Post by vaktimusprime on Jul 31, 2017 14:51:29 GMT -6
If a fortification is on the table as a piece of terrain is it automatically that fortification? Or is that something that the players agree to during terrain placement?
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Post by Nick P on Jul 31, 2017 14:57:18 GMT -6
Its something that the players have to agree on - you can play a bastion or a fortress of redemption as those models, treat them as neutral and allow either army to occupy them and contest them, or you can just call them ruins and call it a day, totally up to you guys.
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Post by Eric formerly Eric on Aug 1, 2017 11:44:52 GMT -6
Ok, another question: How is distance measured in this edition? Is it from the base of the model or any point of the model that is over the base? If I am measuring distance from a model on the ground to a model on a building, how do I do that? This is what I assume is correct: Movement: unless FLY or special rules, must measure horizontally plus vertically at a right angle. Shooting: must measure directly from model to model (ie the hypotenuse of the triangle). You measure distances/ranges from base to base for shooting and charge range. If a model doesn't have a base, such as with many vehicles, its to the hull. Most flyers/skimmers have rules that mean you measure to the hull instead of the base even though they have both - but it must be explicit, so double check your opponent's data sheets. And yes, you're right for movement and shooting; movement = true range, ie count both vertical and horizontal distances in total. Shooting = direct range, ie shortest distance between two models (the hypotenuse). Thanks. But since we were talking about monsters charging 2nd/3rd levels, and measuring from the body in that instance, i wasnt sure if that was the exception to the rule. Also, i just have a hard time figuring out distance for abilities, especially for enemies in codexes that i dont own. Since everyone has unique language for area of effect stuff, it leads to lots of unexpected things happening. For example, in my game against Tau, Deathleaper charged an ethereal and got overwatched by a unit in a nearby bastion. That unit was within 6" horizonally but it was not within 6" base to base. (And it potentially was within 6" model to model). I wish there was more universal clarity on how these things are measured so i dont have to guess. |
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Post by rogerspacem on Aug 1, 2017 12:03:45 GMT -6
As mentioned Eric,
Abilities that has a radius should be clarified in the designer's notes on the Warhammer community site otherwise it's a horizontal 6" bubble and it's vertical distance is infinite.
For armies you don't have access to the rules, just ask your opponent to verify the ability with you by opening their codex/index.
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Post by Eric formerly Eric on Aug 1, 2017 12:32:17 GMT -6
As mentioned Eric, Abilities that has a radius should be clarified in the designer's notes on the Warhammer community site otherwise it's a horizontal 6" bubble and it's vertical distance is infinite. For armies you don't have access to the rules, just ask your opponent to verify the ability with you by opening their codex/index. Ok. And yeah of course I ask my opponents but its kinda hard to ask about rules constantly like that in a tournament when you only have 2 hours to play. If its consistently a cylinder AoE, then that isnt hard to remember. I just thought it was a direct line. Thanks |
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