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Post by Nick P on Jun 11, 2017 8:16:48 GMT -6
After fiddling around with lists and watching a ton of battle reports with 8th edition nids, it seems they're no longer the butt of the joke in terms of armies!
So I'm dusting mine off for 8th - here's what I'm thinking for 2000 points:
Battalion Detachment (+3CPs)
HQ: Swarmlord 300 HQ: Broodlord 162
ELITE: 3x Hive Guard, Impaler Cannons 144 ELITE: 3X Hive Guard, Impaler Cannons 144
TROOPS: 6 warriors, adrenal glands, rending claws, scything talons 138 TROOPS: 16 Genestealers 192 TROOPS: 24 hormagaunts, adrenal glands 144 TROOPS: 23 termagants, devourers 184
HEAVY: Exocrine 228 HEAVY: Trygon, pincer tail, adrenal glands 180 HEAVY: Trygon, toxinspike, adrenal glands 180
Basically trying to get 5 turn 1 charges off - both trygons, one takes the warriors, one takes the hormagaunts, show up 9" away turn 1 and can charge. The adrenal glands give +1 to charges so will make that a bit easier.
The genestealers and termagants bubble wrap the Swarmlord and broodlord, and swarmy uses his hive commander ability to let the stealers move and run twice before charging as well (16+2d6" + 2d6" charge turn 1).
Exocrine and hive guard act as artillery to takedown vehicles with 12 S7 and 12 S8 shots.
Only 3 synapse units so that might be a big issue, and I might find upgrading to a trygon prime and switching to fleshborer gants might be a better option. Only time will tell!
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Post by Nick P on Jun 11, 2017 8:52:15 GMT -6
Also realising nids may have one of the easiest ways of filling out a brigade detachment - ripper swarms are 33 per unit, spore mines are 30 per unit, and lictors are 45 each. Easy way to fill out elite, troops and fast attack taxes in order to load up on heavy choices like exocrines, carnifexes, trygons, toxicrenes and tyrannofexes. I may have to dig into that more...
Also, tyranid primes may be great ways to extend synapse since they can't be singled out due to being under 10 wounds.
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Post by Joelercoaster on Jun 11, 2017 9:44:08 GMT -6
I think expecting both trygons and their troop friends to all charge t1 is a bit ambitious. Even with adrenals you need slightly better than average rolls. Of course if you're willing to spend CP then that makes it more reliable, and if that's the plan I say go for it.
Suggestion on the termagants - pull a few devourers out to get more bodies. The bonus to reroll 1's lasting more than a single unit's shooting IMHO is worth the trade. Especially with any advance/shoot turns it will come in handy.
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Post by Eric formerly Eric on Jun 11, 2017 10:28:29 GMT -6
The big hole I see is synapse for the hguard/exocrine. Since you want them standing still, it may be hard for them to shoot at optimal targets.
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Post by Nick P on Jun 11, 2017 11:09:39 GMT -6
The big hole I see is synapse for the hguard/exocrine. Since you want them standing still, it may be hard for them to shoot at optimal targets. I feel like dropping a trygon and maybe going with a baby sitting prime or 3 man naked warrior unit is a good idea for the fire base.
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Post by Nick P on Jun 11, 2017 11:11:13 GMT -6
I think expecting both trygons and their troop friends to all charge t1 is a bit ambitious. Even with adrenals you need slightly better than average rolls. Of course if you're willing to spend CP then that makes it more reliable, and if that's the plan I say go for it. Suggestion on the termagants - pull a few devourers out to get more bodies. The bonus to reroll 1's lasting more than a single unit's shooting IMHO is worth the trade. Especially with any advance/shoot turns it will come in handy. It's not that I expect them to, it's just that it's incredibly possible to get all 5 charges. I do plan on spending my 1 reroll per phase to help make it happen, but also with that many units trying to charge there's a good chance I get at least 3/5 which is nasty and ties up anything that could have been shooting me instead. Also with devourers in not too concerned about the rerolls. For fleshborer you need it for them to be useful, since 30 fleshborers means 15 hit, with rerolls that's about 20. Devourers are already putting out 3 shots each, so that unit is averaging 34/35 hits even without rerolls.
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Post by Joelercoaster on Jun 11, 2017 11:30:32 GMT -6
Def, the potential for early charges now is super high and when you focus on it like you have you're going to do a good job of cutting out key shooting early on.
And yeah devourers are still putting out the same damage as before which is great, I just say "why not" to essentially free bonuses xD. Especially with split fire you can potentially start torrenting down multiple units.
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Post by Eric formerly Eric on Jun 11, 2017 12:25:17 GMT -6
The big hole I see is synapse for the hguard/exocrine. Since you want them standing still, it may be hard for them to shoot at optimal targets. I feel like dropping a trygon and maybe going with a baby sitting prime or 3 man naked warrior unit is a good idea for the fire base. sitting prime would be best cause you can bubble wrap him (and give him a barbed strangler for ranged shooting)
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Post by Nick P on Jun 12, 2017 7:51:58 GMT -6
Made some changes - turns out I can't find my other 3 hive guard, probably sold them and forgot (fack), so I'll have to pick some more up this weekend from the Dojo. Also I think I need more synapse coverage, so upgraded one of the trygons to a prime and added some lictors for character sniping.
Battalion Detachment (+3CPs)
HQ: Swarmlord 300 HQ: Broodlord 162
ELITE: 3x Hive Guard, Impaler Cannons 144 ELITE: 1 Lictor 45 ELITE: 1 Lictor 45
TROOPS: 6 warriors, adrenal glands, rending claws, scything talons 138 TROOPS: 16 Genestealers 192 TROOPS: 30 hormagaunts, adrenal glands 180 TROOPS: 30 termagants, 11 devourers 164
HEAVY: Exocrine 228 HEAVY: Trygon, pincer tail, adrenal glands 180 HEAVY: Trygon Prime, biostatic rattle, adrenal glands 219
So really I only need to babysit the hive guard and the exocrine - but if I deploy them forward in some cover I shouldn't need to worry *too* much, since with the broodlord, tyrant, warriors, and trygon prime I can make sure *something* is within 8"/12" of them. Maybe even have the broodlord babysit them and act as a charge deterrent.
Lictors can go after artillery, light tanks, lone characters, etc. They're decently survivable from what I've seen in battle reports, and they can chew through most standard infantry with little fear of getting hurt/killed in return. And they don't need synapse! Nor do the genestealers.
So with 12 units, I can keep 6 in reserves - and plan to. Both trygons, both lictors, the hormagaunts, and the warriors. Use the stealers as a Hive Commander'd turn 1 charger after deployment, use the termagants to bubble wrap the swarmy, and use the broodlord to baby sit the artillery pieces on deployment.
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Post by Joelercoaster on Jun 12, 2017 15:14:59 GMT -6
Thought Lictors still had Instinctive Behavior - or is it the idea that they pop up near what you want them to tackle anyway?
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Post by Eric formerly Eric on Jun 12, 2017 15:30:33 GMT -6
Yeah I think that's fine to do since you can easily control "closest target" via deepstrike. Especially since lictor are fairly cheap, I think anything after that first target is a bonus. On the other hand, I had a problem with IB for my trygon cause after he demolished a first unit, he got sucked into some bad combats. For example, his closest enemy was already fighting old one eye... so it was overkill to have him charge. And then there were the tarpitting scarabs...
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Post by Joelercoaster on Jun 12, 2017 17:31:58 GMT -6
Fair enough. I'm rather a fan of the death leaper myself as it's Guaranteed charge vs the target (or something nearby). Plus even harder to hit is nice.
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Post by rogerspacem on Jun 16, 2017 8:04:33 GMT -6
@nick P silly 8th edition newb question: how did you determine points for your army? Got into an debate with a friend about determining the cost for a model/army, so I'm wondering how you determined yours. Did you pay for model and pay for any upgrades (assuming default equipment is free) or did you pay for model and pay for everything (weapons and upgrades.) like I said its silly, but the wording in the rule book feel a little too open to interpretation.
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Post by Russell on Jun 16, 2017 8:09:19 GMT -6
Not all default equipment is free, unfortunately.
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Post by Nick P on Jun 16, 2017 8:25:08 GMT -6
@nick P silly 8th edition newb question: how did you determine points for your army? Got into an debate with a friend about determining the cost for a model/army, so I'm wondering how you determined yours. Did you pay for model and pay for any upgrades (assuming default equipment is free) or did you pay for model and pay for everything (weapons and upgrades.) like I said its silly, but the wording in the rule book feel a little too open to interpretation. You have to go in and pay for EVERYTHING. A lot of the basic equipment has a points cost of 0 anyways, like fleshborers for example or scything talons, but even some stuff that is exclusive to only a single model - say, the Bio-Plasmic Cannon on the exocrine (he's the only model in the entire army that can use it) - has a points cost of 66 points. GW basically took every single piece of wargear and equipment, and separated it from its model's points costs, so that they can be SUPER granular with updates. Hive tyrants too overpowered with wings? Great, now they can increase *just* the cost of wings to balance it. Exocrine not getting enough playtime, or doing too little damage? Super, now they can take *just* the cost of its cannon and reduce it 50% to make it playable. etc etc etc So yes - you need to take the basic model cost, then add grenades, bolters, bolt pistols, ccws etc as needed for each model to have its basic equipment. Some of that might be free, but much of it won't be.
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