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Post by Eric formerly Eric on May 2, 2017 8:19:01 GMT -6
It seems to have a lot of meat to me. After the chargers strike, you and your opponent take turns picking which unit strikes next. Is this how sigmar works? Do people like it? Do people like the flat to-hit? I personally like the nuance of marines hitting firewarriors on a 3 but Swarmlord on a 5.
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cj
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Post by cj on May 2, 2017 8:24:58 GMT -6
I like the sound of how the striking order will work. Assuming no initiative penalties, it makes thunder hammer equipped terminators terrifying, and might actually give a good reason to stick a power fist on a tactical sergeant or chapter master.
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Post by Eric formerly Eric on May 2, 2017 8:38:54 GMT -6
I like the sound of how the striking order will work. Assuming no initiative penalties, it makes thunder hammer equipped terminators terrifying, and might actually give a good reason to stick a power fist on a tactical sergeant or chapter master. I was assuming that there would be an unwieldy rule attached to those types of weapons but who knows.
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Post by Joelercoaster on May 2, 2017 8:39:30 GMT -6
I do have to say, I am currently (and this is only on the surface) less impressed with the assault changes than others I've seen so far - but I am heavily biased on the "assault needs to be way, way better" side of things.
Could someone link to the wherever you found the bit about pistols being able to shoot while in combat? I was never actually able to find that rule quip. That in and of itself is really quite powerful - punch a guy, *and* shoot him in the face? (or does it have to be a separate unit? Shrug). If only fleshborers were pistols xD
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Post by Nick P on May 2, 2017 8:44:11 GMT -6
Joel all of this is from the daily updates in warhammer40000.com and warhammer community.
The charge phase article says that you can use your pistols during the shooting phase, even if in close combat, but it has to be the closest unit (ie the one you're locked in combat with).
The wording from the warhammer tv thing will is talking about makes it sound like they can also only shoot at the closest unit even if not in combat which is interesting.
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Post by Eric formerly Eric on May 2, 2017 8:44:15 GMT -6
It's in the section on the shooting phase. They say that units cannot shoot if they are within 1" of an enemy unless they have pistols, in which case they can shoot at the closest unit.
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Post by Nick P on May 2, 2017 8:50:30 GMT -6
Also the article today says tyranid lash whips are one of the few ways to interrupt the "chargers attack first" and alternating activation of combat. So my guess is that the initiative penalty for lash whips is being maintained by basically saying lash whip units go first regardless. Now I need to paint up my toxicrene
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Post by Joelercoaster on May 2, 2017 9:05:26 GMT -6
Ah, must have missed that from the shooting article - thanks for the heads up! Okay, so it seems the same in that 'within 1"' essentially means 'in combat' now. So during the shooting phase you can shoot the nearest enemy unit (which is likely the one you're in combat with anyway) with your pistols... so yes, that does seem to be in addition to your CC attacks.
So to reiterate what everyone already has figured out (xD) this is a huge, huge boon for 99% of combat units.
I am sad, though, that Tyranids will not (on the surface, at least) reap this benefit. They could, of course, just be extra-nasty in CC on its own in order to be well worth it.
Also - agreed, Nick, that Lashwhips will be a big player in this edition. Maybe all those walking Tyrants will even have a reason to come out to play? Really hoping so, they look awesome!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 2, 2017 9:13:07 GMT -6
Whats interesting about the whips is that they are an ideal screening unit. Problem is, I'm not sure how to use that. Assuming the metamorphs in GSC get the same lash whip rule, I find it difficult to plan an effective use for them. If you charge the unit strikes first any way, so whips are only good if you get charged or if you stay in combat for more than one round. Problem here is that the enemy can Hit & Run out now making fights that last more then one round rarer. You could screen for your artillery bugs with venomthropes and other whip bugs though, as the strike first aspect makes them a dicey charge target.
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Post by Joelercoaster on May 2, 2017 9:21:11 GMT -6
I think it'll make units like warriors/Tyrants a little more vicious (very good), but I don't see it being a huge boon to something like Venomthropes - as is, I think they're I6 with the whips (ie; usually striking first) and they're not the sort of unit you'd use as a counter-charge/blocker.. they just don't have oomph/survivability (even with 2+ poison attacks).
Granted, Veno's could get a little nastier, or better armor, or whatever to make it more plausible. But more likely I think Warriors on foot with whips may have more of a place in just that sort of tactic. A moderately durable "come at me" unit that just happens to also be a troop scoring an objective (so leave them alone too, if you want, but then I win!).
I will say I'm super eager to see what the stats for all the Nid weapons turn out to be... even the lowly Scything Talon could be something cool with all of the granularity that 8th is introducing.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 2, 2017 9:30:14 GMT -6
Warriors are almost guaranteed to be much better. The lack of instant death and the change to armor modifiers makes them all around better. Hopefully they'll get a decent move speed of 6 or 7 to really become a threat.
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Post by Joelercoaster on May 2, 2017 11:16:26 GMT -6
What do they have in necromunda, 5"? I bet it will be similar, with adrenal glands adding to movement in the same manner since there's no initiative to boost.
- EDIT -
Oh the dangers of comparing cross-system...
Necro-style Marines only have a 4" move, making Warriors actually a touch faster (I guess having legs as tall as a Marine actually does something xD). So Perhaps a matched 6" move, with Adrenals adding 1 or 2"? Or doing something for charging? Who knows. Aughf I want warriors to be awesome, and this actually sounds like it may be a good start.
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Post by Nick P on May 2, 2017 16:20:29 GMT -6
What do they have in necromunda, 5"? I bet it will be similar, with adrenal glands adding to movement in the same manner since there's no initiative to boost. - EDIT - Oh the dangers of comparing cross-system... Necro-style Marines only have a 4" move, making Warriors actually a touch faster (I guess having legs as tall as a Marine actually does something xD). So Perhaps a matched 6" move, with Adrenals adding 1 or 2"? Or doing something for charging? Who knows. Aughf I want warriors to be awesome, and this actually sounds like it may be a good start. Well marines have 6" move and they said tyranids were faster, so I don't think Shadow War/Necromunda is a good indicator. My bet is on 8" as standard for most nids. Also, though most units don't have pistols, this could be the rubberband effect that brings spine fists back into "optimal choice" range (again...its like it skips every other edition it seems like lol), so we could see units of 30 termagants, with 8" move, and 2x pistols each at S4, charging in and bogging down multiple units and then attacking them in both the shooting and combat phases, not to mention the support from lash whip units to help keep things in your favor...I'm getting giddy just thinking about the possibility of Nids having some edge and playing like they're supposed to. SQUEEE
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 3, 2017 8:12:09 GMT -6
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Post by jefferestinpeace on May 3, 2017 8:14:13 GMT -6
Prediction: Synapse and Shadows are reduced to 6"
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