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Post by Nick P on Feb 13, 2017 12:11:54 GMT -6
This might be too MSU, or it might be a real dick punch. I'm having a hard time deciding which, or if its going to be able to take advantage of chaining Soulburst Actions like I think it might. C&C as always, I want to try to figure out a good balance for this army as a community so I can play it without losing every game and without getting punched through a fury of angry tears every game.
Reborn Warhost - 1850
HQ: Farseer - jetbike - 115
Troop: 3 Windriders - scatterlaser - 81 3 Windriders - scatterlaser - 81 5 Kabbalite Warriors - venom, 2x splinter cannons - 105 5 Kabbalite Warriors - venom, 2x splinter cannons - 105 5 kabbalite Warriors - 40 5 Kabbalite Warriors - 40
Elite: 8 Incubi - Raider - 215
Fast: 3 Reavers - caltrops, heat lance - 73 3 Reavers - caltrops, heat lance - 73
LoW: Wraithknight - 2x heavy wraith cannons - 295
Formations: Triumverate of Ynnead - 625
Lots of fast moving elements to get into position for soulbound actions - and with 7 units in the army, 2 units get soulbound for each dead unit instead of just 1. Splash chaining!
Visarch and Yvraine both go in the incubi deathstar, yncarne just does his thing hopping around the board spreading FnP and threatening enemy objectives. Jetbikes zoom around targeting light armor (windriders) and normal armor (reavers) while being able to do some damage in combat as well when needed (Reavers) and zoom around grabbing objectives if they're alive at the end of the game. Farseer goes in one of these units, probably the windriders since they don't want to be in combat, and just dishes out some (hopefully good) revenant power buffs.
Wraithknight is here to do the heavy lifting vs armor, since this list lacks really any kind of anti armor aside from the odd heat lance shot. I'm hoping its not a dick move since I literally have no other reliable anti armor/anti super heavy, and because frankly people have an answer to wraithknights now it seems. The last 2 games I've played with mine, he's died on turn 2.
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Post by Joelercoaster on Feb 14, 2017 7:47:41 GMT -6
My initial thought/worry is that you only really have 2 units that care about getting extra actions through soulburst - the WK and the Incubi. Although I suppose the Yncarne thing would make the list too? I kind of forget its rules.
To the point, my meandering thought on the army has been that rather than MSU, more solid units may be the way to go. While gaining a bonus action when one of your units dies (hopefully) is great, the trick is to get bonus actions from killing the enemy. So many of your units, when shooting twice, still won't put out appreciable firepower (kabalites, reavers/windriders are iffy given the 'cost' of the extra SL shot).
Because you have only a few units that really benefit from soulburst, I can (maybe) go weapons free on a bunch of your tiny sacrifice units, and kind of just get it out of the way, depleting your ammo. Even better to do it early against the Incubi (read; T1 if I go first) because their extra shooting is... literally nothing?.
I could definitely be proven wrong, this may be the way to go. Let me know!
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Post by Nick P on Feb 14, 2017 9:19:42 GMT -6
See I completely disagree. Soulbursting the reavers to shoot their heat lances at a vehicle twice, or to have them do their jetbike move in my phase and then charge in the opponents phase, or charge - kill - charge again is really good.
12 S6 shots on the windriders, that can potentially shoot twice in a turn, is also really really good.
The warriors are more or less there because I had the points, not necessarily as sacrificial lambs, though they can definitely work that angle if needed depending on the flow of the game. And while just 5 dudes with splinter rifles isn't all that scary, if they can soulburst to rapid fire their splinter weapons two times in a turn, dishing out 20 poisoned shots, that's a lot of forced saves.
This list isn't banking on using my own dead to get soulburst - it can put out a lot of pain with the scatter bikes, the reavers, the incubi, the venoms, and the wraithknight. Not to mention the Yncarne doing his thing all over the board. I absolutely intend to kill the enemy to get my actions, just because its MSU does not mean I'm aiming to die for bonus action.
And again, because I'm taking a 7+ unit reborn warhost, for every dead unit I get TWO soulburst actions. And within 14" of other units with the right power (for which I have 8 rolls on the table ), all but guaranteeing I have access to it on either Yvraine (who will be up front on the lines in perfect placement to use it) or the farseer (who is fast moving and can get it where I need it most) or the Yncarne (who pops up just about wherever I want to get the power where I need it). Not to mention the power that grants a free soulburst action (again, all but guaranteed to have it at least once).
But, like I said, this is all in theory right now - going up against Erics space marines on Wednesday will be the true test to see if I'm right, or if foot-dar is the way to go.
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Post by 1D3chan on Feb 14, 2017 12:54:13 GMT -6
I think the trick with Yvraine and the Visarch is to put them both into a huge squad of bodies - like 20 man squads, if not at least 10 man squads. You put them at the front of the unit and try to "tank" with the 4++ or 3+. Then when they start to lose wounds, you just sacrifice your 20 man blob one by one to regain wounds on the "tanks"
You have to like try to use them together for a 3+/4++. I think he auto passes look out sirs for her (his armour should be white if ya know what i mean har har). Not that it's really the best tanking stat line...or even a good one...but the Eternal Warrior and Regen has some potential to work very effectively.
The real question is do you roll on Sanctic or Revenant with Yvraine. Sanctic you get the teleport and maybe get her invul to a 3++ - but revenant you get to possibly trigger Soul Bursts without dying, get an AP2 Nova or the little S10 assassination beam.
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Post by Nick P on Feb 14, 2017 13:11:13 GMT -6
I think Revenant is better as far as a "most of the spells are useful" discipline, but sanctic is like telepathy - there are a couple that are amazing, and the rest are kinda meh or just super situational. I think it comes down to what happens first - warlord traits or psychic disciplines? If itS WL traits, and yvraine gets the "choose your powers" trait, then I think you take sanctic and just cherry pick the good ones. If you don't, then you roll revenant, since no matter what she gets it'll be useful to some degree if not ideal.
For the above list, I'm starting to feel like instead of 2x5 man warrior squads I should go with 1x10 man warrior squad. It lasts longer, and actually gets really dangerous if soulbound to shoot 2x in a turn. Likewise maybe I just drop the raider and rock 10 incubi in that unit, for the added bodies/damage output. And maybe find a way to bulk the bike units to 4 bodies each, or just roll with 2 units of 6 so they have mad damage output. I'll toy around with it tomorrow night vs Eric for sure.
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Post by 1D3chan on Feb 14, 2017 15:12:03 GMT -6
Can you get a webway portal in a big squad of ______ with Yvraine and the Visarch? Incubi if you like them a lot? I think that's your ticket. Maybe even in a big blob of Storm Guardians with some flamers + her Nova or some fusion guns + her S10 beam.
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Post by Nick P on Feb 14, 2017 15:26:25 GMT -6
You have to take it on a DE character, so the cheapest way would be to use an HQ slot on a naked archon + wwp, 90 points. Not exactly cheap for a one-use gimmick that might not come in till turn 4.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 14, 2017 15:35:18 GMT -6
Not exactly cheap for a one-use gimmick that might not come in till turn 4. Ahem, *Autarch* Of course its another point investment, but the Autarch is a great beat stick and more importantly gives you the +1/-1 reserves manipulation to bring in the WWP when you need it.
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Post by 1D3chan on Feb 14, 2017 15:37:54 GMT -6
Orrrrr on a Corsair Prince with a 2++ Invul and now you have a whole new dimension on your hands.
Idk your guess is as good as mine, the combo's are there, it's just a matter of time till the best ones are revealed.
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Post by Nick P on Feb 14, 2017 16:30:28 GMT -6
Yeah but then its just more points into yet another detachment that takes away from the overall effectiveness of the Ynarri Soulbound thing. I could take an archon with webway portal (or more likely, a succubus with archite glaive + webway portal for some AP2) and an autarch with a banshee mask to prevent overwatch, and throw all of them AND the 2 Triumvirate characters into a giant unit of incubi...
Eggs, meet basket lol
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Post by Deleted on Feb 14, 2017 16:36:08 GMT -6
I wonder if the Autarch might not get more use being on an jetbike in another squad. It'd give you another option for Soul Bursting, and also give the units some punch in melee if you wanted it. The reserves effects happens so long as the autarch is in the list, so I see little need to put it in with incubi-star.
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Post by 1D3chan on Feb 14, 2017 16:44:20 GMT -6
Yeah but then its just more points into yet another detachment that takes away from the overall effectiveness of the Ynarri Soulbound thing. I could take an archon with webway portal (or more likely, a succubus with archite glaive + webway portal for some AP2) and an autarch with a banshee mask to prevent overwatch, and throw all of them AND the 2 Triumvirate characters into a giant unit of incubi... Eggs, meet basket lol look do you want to bang again or not just let me know ffs
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Post by Nick P on Feb 14, 2017 16:55:56 GMT -6
I wonder if the Autarch might not get more use being on an jetbike in another squad. It'd give you another option for Soul Bursting, and also give the units some punch in melee if you wanted it. The reserves effects happens so long as the autarch is in the list, so I see little need to put it in with incubi-star. You had me at "it happens as long as he's in the list". Alright Ima retool this a bit and see if I can find that balance between msu and blobs that still leaves options for soulbound actions and can still do decent psychic damage and heavy lifting vs LoWs whilst remaining mobile. Should be easy right?
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Post by Joelercoaster on Feb 14, 2017 19:10:16 GMT -6
mmmm I missed the part where you got 2 soulbursts per kill, that's huge in this style of list.
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Post by Nick P on Feb 15, 2017 23:14:36 GMT -6
So this list went up against Eric space marines, he had (correct me if I'm wrong eric): Captain on bike, iron halo, relic blade Librarian on bike with force sword 5 bike command squad - 4 grav, 1 apothecary 2x10 tacticals in a rhino 5 vanguard vets - 2x tlc, 2x bp and power sword, 1x thss 10 sternguard - 4x melta, drop pod 1 speeder - 2x heavy bolters 1 predator annihilator 1 relic sicaran 5 devestators with missiles Overall the game was a lot of fun. This ynarri army is perfect for countering alpha strike armies, because you get to soulburst back at em. Also jetbikes can flat out when they soulburst. So, when my unit of reavers died in turn 1 I got to move the other 36" across the board to threaten a rhino with my heat lance for example. The msu tactics worked out pretty well, and the incubi deathstar just deleted whatever it touched. Overall the whole soul burst thing is great but it has you constantly trying to think in terms of A) triangulation to keep your units close enough to benefit and B) order of operations so you can chain things together. Also the yncarne hopping around the board to just bug him was hysterical. Highlight of the game - on his turn 3, he charged his command squad into my farseer and scatterbikes. They overwatch, killing the command squad and leaving the captain and librarian alone. That resulted in 2 soulbursts due to the detachment rule - so I jet the bikes 36" across the board so he can't charge them, and then charge his two characters with my deathstar, killing them both and triggering 4 more soulbursts (but not before I dropped my tape measure on my unit, exploding one of my metal incubi and breaking the sword off another ), as well as gaining slay the warlord. Again, on his assault phase. But he did kill my wraithknight turn 2 and got the yncarne down to 1 wound and had me beat on maelstrom, but if we had gone 1 or 2 turns (called it midway through turn 3) I would have tabled him.
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