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Post by Nick P on May 5, 2016 11:12:04 GMT -6
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Post by Deleted on May 5, 2016 13:01:41 GMT -6
Everything is in it now. Looks like DE are going to be the new kings of the sky. I wonder if that will have any impact on the larger meta?
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Post by Nick P on May 5, 2016 14:04:35 GMT -6
I actually think Eldar rule the skies - not only do they have the same 5/5 for pursuit and agility as DE, but they have vector dancer built in! So they can pivot, move, pivot again, shoot, finish their move, then pivot AGAIN, basically just running tight ovals around the game board, more or less ending their move in exactly the same spot they started it.
Granted, DE have more firepower - 4 missiles in addition to the 2 dark lances. Either way, both eldar are in a great spot sky-wise, as it should be. I particularly like the DE formation, where the razorwings prevent dogfights with the bombers if at least one of them is in reserve. Great way to protect the most expensive piece of glass in the book! haha
I think this will mean, that for a while people try to bring 3-4 flyers a game to use the attack formations etc for bonuses, and the bonus to reserve rolls for having Air Superiority. Then, people will bring dedicated AA, or their own flyers to match, evening the playing field...and eventually we'll get back to where we are now; some people bring 1-2 flyers, some don't, and neither are particularly game breaking.
I for one am bringing 3 razorwings to my next game, to try to get some cool attack formation bonuses (like preferred enemey (unit type) for the entire game??? DAMN)
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Post by Joelercoaster on May 5, 2016 14:42:48 GMT -6
What are the bonuses for the standard (ie, flying 3-4 planes in physical formation) formations? Also, is there anything for FMC's in all of this?
I think Eldar have the lead in pure airspace superiority, as the Crimson Hunter has always been just a stupidly effective fighter for the points (especially against other flyers). The Razorwing has the bonus of still being plenty viable vs ground infantry with its missiles (BS3 matters a lot less with a large blast). There's the question on "what constitutes a ground target", though, which very well may be laid out clearly in the rules. If a flyer is hovering, is it a ground target? Or are all skimmers/jetbikes/etc fair game? Would be nice to have a few more "normal" targets than enemy flyers, but... shrug.
I think the formation of 2 bombers and 2 'wings is interesting and has some nice bonus rules, but is an expensive piece of overkill IMHO. They don't like to tackle the same sort of targets, unless you pay out the nose for missiles on the bombers, and then... eh. I dunno. Maybe I'm wrong and it'd work out well... guess you could use 1 missile each on 4 turns, 4 targets. Still a lot of AV10 with a lot of points in the bombers. Fun, though.
And it looks like the agility on the Razorwing is "only" 5, so a chance to not have vector dancer for the turn. Always hurts when you roll that 1-out-of-6 (just ask the shadowfield). But a big improvement, nonetheless. I'll def have to dust mine off and roll them out a bit.
Also also, finally we're back to having a vertical firing arc on vehicles. No more stopping 1" away from something and shooting straight down with a flyer... placement is key, making the more mobile fighters that much more important.
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Post by Deleted on May 5, 2016 14:45:53 GMT -6
Air Targets = Flyers, FMCs, FGMCS Skimmers, & Jetbikes Ground = Everything else
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Post by Nick P on May 5, 2016 15:02:33 GMT -6
What are the bonuses for the standard (ie, flying 3-4 planes in physical formation) formations? Also, no info for FMCs. Specifically, they're not a part of all this nonsense. From a formations perspective, I see a lot of 3-razorwing formations going vehemence and intolerance to get tank hunter or to ignore cover, respectively. Really makes them effective vs other flyers, which is the whole point. For the 2 RW and 2 VRB formation, I can't imagine why you wouldn't roll around in Fortitude Attack Pattern all day! Interceptor, 4+ invuln, and It Will Not Die? Makes the whole "AV10" thing seem less significant. I might pick up a 4th razorwing and go with the indomitable attack pattern - yes, its 500 points in a single unit, and yes, its overkill, but it gets hella special rules and would look dope.
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Post by jefferestinpeace on May 5, 2016 15:05:04 GMT -6
I might pick up a 4th razoring Got im
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Post by Nick P on May 5, 2016 15:05:54 GMT -6
Man I want to do another campaign, all I can think about is how damn fun the "gas giant" missions would be where you have nothing but flyers - and using these rules, you can just forgo the ground units and just play larger-than-average Star Wars Armada basically, which is hugely appealing to me.
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Post by Deleted on May 5, 2016 15:06:18 GMT -6
I might pick up a 4th razorwing and go with the indomitable attack pattern - yes, its 500 points in a single unit, and yes, its overkill, but it gets hella special rules and would look dope. I feel the exact same way about picking up two Stormhawk Interceptors to complement my Storm Talons. The indomitable pattern just seems fun to run.
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Post by Nick P on May 5, 2016 15:07:41 GMT -6
Side note, I might pick up a stormhawk or two to convert into Xiphon interceptors. Feel like its very doable with a little creativity and plasticard.
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Post by Joelercoaster on May 5, 2016 15:26:41 GMT -6
So there are a couple of notes where certain formations have to fire at the same ground/air target... is this not normally the case? As they form a squadron, I would think they always target the same unit? Or are these formations you can pull with 3-4 individual planes also?
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Post by Deleted on May 5, 2016 15:33:31 GMT -6
So there are a couple of notes where certain formations have to fire at the same ground/air target... is this not normally the case? As they form a squadron, I would think they always target the same unit? Or are these formations you can pull with 3-4 individual planes also? An attack wing is technically not a squadron, its just two-four individual Planes that gain some benefits if they fly in close proximity.
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Post by theknightmantis on May 5, 2016 15:57:33 GMT -6
Should also be noted that if your opponent has no fliers you automatically gain air superiority (I.E. +1/-1 reserves and -1 for opponents reserves). This seems like a rule designed to push sales if I've ever seen one... Yeah I do not like that part at all. That said if someone does not want to use these new rules in a game I have no issue with that.
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Post by Joelercoaster on May 5, 2016 16:00:16 GMT -6
mmmmm.... DE RSR with 3 individual Razorwings to fly in one of a few patterns depending on need, and can still target a slew of things, especially with that "almost always" extra turn....
Not enough to catapult DE to the top, but certainly an interesting prospect, and combined with the reserves manipulation, it allows for more of their "should be natural" deep strike tactics to come into play.
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Post by Nick P on May 6, 2016 8:25:06 GMT -6
Yeah man, plus 1 to reserves = turn 2 double-webway deep strike with wraithguard and d-scythes!
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