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Post by Joelercoaster on May 2, 2016 19:38:28 GMT -6
Anyone have a chance to poke through this book yet? Apparently a whole new phase (allowing planes to dogfight while off board), formations (actual "flying in a physical formation") that grant bonuses, and "all new" dataslates for every rocket-scooter out there (I have to imagine some hefty copy-paste is to be had).
Interested to see if the flyers get a real shake-up here... had always hoped the DE jets (at least the Razorwing) would get Vector Dancer. Maybe I'll actually pull all three of mine out for a change.
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Post by Nick P on May 3, 2016 7:55:07 GMT -6
Yeah we had this discussion all last week in the Space Marine/Ork Flyer thread lol The dataslates are copy/paste, except for 3 additional stats - pursuit, agility, and combat role. The Dogfight Phase is optional, you can just skip it if you and your opponent want. If you play it, there are 4 steps. Step 1 - Interception. Players roll off, add modifiers based on the agility of their flyers and the number of attack flyers they have. Winner is the "attacker" loser is the "defender" ie, the winner's planes got the jump on the enemy. Step 2/3 - Targeting, Maneuver - players pick a "tactic" for their flyer(s) or formations, and then both players reveal which tactics they've chosen and consult a table to see what happens: Step 4- attack. Attacking player rolls a round of shooting at the Defending player, applying the bonuses etc. from the targeting/maneuver step, and see what happens. When the dust settles, player who wins the dogfight declared the victor has air superiority for that turn - can modify reserve rolls by 1 (+/-), loser has -1 for reserves. Agility is key, not just for the dogfight phase, but also for the main game - if you take an agility test on 1d6, and pass, you have vector dancer. Dark Eldar have crazy high agility, so basically DE get vector dancer. Attack flyers have skyfire, -1BS when shooting ground targets. Bombers do not have skyfire, but it sounds like they have that rule for +1BS vs ground targets. When moving flat out, you can add your Pursuit value to the distance in inches you move. New detachment - air superiority wing. Includes between 1-3 Attack Formations. Each attack formation has between 2-4 flyers, but must have at least 2 of the same flyer in order to use the 6 formations that grant bonuses like preferred enemy, +1 BS, better jink saves, rerolls to hit, etc. Some require 4 flyers, some are available to attack formations with 2-3 models.
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Post by Deleted on May 3, 2016 8:05:36 GMT -6
Should also be noted that if your opponent has no fliers you automatically gain air superiority (I.E. +1/-1 reserves and -1 for opponents reserves).
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Post by mcsardo on May 3, 2016 8:34:31 GMT -6
Should also be noted that if your opponent has no fliers you automatically gain air superiority (I.E. +1/-1 reserves and -1 for opponents reserves). This seems like a rule designed to push sales if I've ever seen one...
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Post by Nick P on May 3, 2016 10:24:24 GMT -6
Should also be noted that if your opponent has no fliers you automatically gain air superiority (I.E. +1/-1 reserves and -1 for opponents reserves). This seems like a rule designed to push sales if I've ever seen one... That's what their business' entire purpose is - to create an economy wherein people want to exchange money for goods. They sure as hell aren't making models because they like the CAD process!
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Post by mcsardo on May 3, 2016 11:06:55 GMT -6
Touche. This one just seemed particularly strong, in that by not purchasing something you are not simply disadvantaged in the sense of not having it (or being weaker than your opponent), but are punished for it in that the basic rules change for you.
I wonder how this rule interacts with other rules about reserves like "automatically passing reserve rolls" or choosing to pass or fail all reserve rolls. Which rule would trump?
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Post by Nick P on May 3, 2016 11:25:06 GMT -6
Codex rules trump book rules, so if a codex gives you the option to auto-pass or whatever, or choose when they come on, then the benefit/detriment of the dogfight phase would have no bearing.
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Post by 1D3chan on May 3, 2016 12:25:01 GMT -6
Should also be noted that if your opponent has no fliers you automatically gain air superiority (I.E. +1/-1 reserves and -1 for opponents reserves). Is this for Flyers only or all reserve rolls for all units? If it's the latter than it's not really an optional or ignorable part of the game at all.
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Post by Joelercoaster on May 4, 2016 18:06:49 GMT -6
Please tell me the Razorwing got classed as an "attack flyer", and suffers -1 BS to fire its missiles, and has to snap fire its guns at ground targets.
But srsly, "effectively gaining" Vector Dancer is pretty huge. Is it the same as any given characteristic test, where a 6 always fails? I imagine so. Still. That's pretty.
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Post by Nick P on May 5, 2016 7:28:49 GMT -6
Nope, I think the razorwing is a fighter - giving it less utility vs ground targets, but letting it rule the skies - the early word is that it is THE sole winner in the book, and became utterly broken (usual internet drama, so take with a grain of salt).
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Post by Joelercoaster on May 5, 2016 8:03:37 GMT -6
Broken? Perhaps... I have not yet seen the rules in full so take waht I say with a hefty dose of salt, but I find that hard to see. Simply because, as current, it is most useful vs ground troops and support vs light armor (rather than what GW thinks... shrug)... but it's entirely possible that the bonuses it receives more than make up for that and turn it into a real nightmare.
Eldar, afterall, do typically have superior aircraft... it's kind of a thing with them.
Sounds like it'd be fun to play around with to shake things up a bit, although the "pick a secret maneuver" thing is basically a "roll a d3 and see what happens" chart, hidden behind a veil of "tactics".
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Post by Deleted on May 5, 2016 8:09:34 GMT -6
Sounds like it'd be fun to play around with to shake things up a bit, although the "pick a secret maneuver" thing is basically a "roll a d3 and see what happens" chart, hidden behind a veil of "tactics". Its identical in "tactical skill" to a game of rock, paper, scissors. *EDIT* - I saw some more leaks, turns out the Razorwing has something better the vector dancer. Any flyer can attempt a Break Turn by rolling equal to lower then their agility. RW has agility 6 so it will always pass. Break turn lets you make one 90 degree turn anytime during it movement (vector dancer is only at the end of a move). Bad news though is the RW has -1 BS against all ground targets. In other news, air superiority modifies all reserves rolls. I think this is really going to bring a lot more fliers to the tables. Attack and Bomber Craft took a big hit in that their weapons are not able to use skyfire any more. The ability to fire weapons with skyfire is exclusive to fighters. Looks like I may have to pick up some Storm Hawks after all.
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Post by Joelercoaster on May 5, 2016 9:39:42 GMT -6
So Fighters can opt for skyfire, but take -1 vs Ground targets, and Razorwings have Vector-Dancer-Plus. So you get 1 90 degree turn at the start, plus one 90 degree turn at any point during your movement (although with ignoring all terrain, I think it will be rare that this makes a huge difference... it's possible, sure, but I'd be happy with "just" vector dancer).
So yeah, bringing Razorwings all the time. Hitting ground targets at BS3 is annoying, but not horrible. And now the missiles can target enemy flyers (S6 isn't amazing, but isn't terrible if you can get to AV10, which is much easier with the new Agility rules).
Shoot, what's a stock Razorwing with Flickerfield... like 145? 155 with the Splinter Cannon upgrade? Yeah, I think I'll be bringing a couple more regularly.
PS - house rule; everyone Rock Paper Scissors-'s for aerial maneuvers from here on out.
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Post by Deleted on May 5, 2016 9:50:13 GMT -6
PS - house rule; everyone Rock Paper Scissors-'s for aerial maneuvers from here on out.
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Post by Joelercoaster on May 5, 2016 10:40:29 GMT -6
Bless you, Sir Blood
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