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Post by Nick P on Feb 10, 2015 11:58:30 GMT -6
My harlies just came in the mail! Beautiful models, a very good looking kit. And GW is a cheeky bastard...my order came with a little black envelope with gold writing on it...and I opened it up...and it said "Sorry, you probably thought you won our contest. Better luck next time."
Jerks. Oh well, still have the jet bikes coming next week, and some Necron stuff on the way (a spyder, cryptek, and overlord). So crossing my fingers...
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Post by Russell on Feb 10, 2015 15:43:43 GMT -6
Ha, those bastards.
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Post by Nick P on Feb 11, 2015 9:52:15 GMT -6
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Post by Nick P on Feb 11, 2015 9:52:37 GMT -6
And the weapon rules:
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Post by Russell on Feb 11, 2015 10:01:56 GMT -6
Fear?
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Post by Russell on Feb 11, 2015 10:08:42 GMT -6
How much do they co$t?
Just saw they're $41 a pop. oof.
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Post by Nick P on Feb 11, 2015 11:20:55 GMT -6
Yeah, but when you put it into perspective that a transport of any type is around the same cost...its not too bad of a deal. I mean, if you were trying to buy 3 Necron barges, or 3 Predators, or 3 Wyverns, or whatever else - it'd be about the same if not more expensive.
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Post by Nick P on Feb 11, 2015 11:26:49 GMT -6
Yeah I mean, not really sure about that. I guess for defense? So that people might be at WS1 and only hitting on 4s if they charge it? Idk man, harlies are weird. Also, there is a WD "Harlequin Masque Detachment" that includes: - 3 Mandatory Troops
- 2 Mandatory Fast Attack
- 1 Mandatory Heavy Support
- Up to 7 Elites
And it goes on to say that because of the rules for death jesters and shadowseers (which are TRUE psykers now, and have access to a new discipline called Phantasmology), its preffered to take one of each, for EACH of your three troops to pal around with and get bonues (what these bonuses are, I have no idea yet). And then it recommends that you take a Solitaire as well.
So a few things - one, that's a lot of mandatory stuff for what most of us saw as a "side army" or "dedicated allied slot", and two - there really isn't any room for customization here. I mean, the amount of elites you bring is the only differentiator between any two given harlequin armies.
And, unless either the death jester or the shadow seer is an HQ/Elite, they can't be taken in a CaD or an Allied detachment, since they don't have any HQ models to use in the mandatory slots. Which is really, really pigeon holing people who want to use them.
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Post by Russell on Feb 11, 2015 12:31:09 GMT -6
What are the elites in the harlequin 'codex' anyhow? Unless I missed something, all they have are troops, some fast attack bikes, a heavy support tank and the HQs.
I feel like I'm getting real salty every time I read about this release. Maybe if I complain more, my neckbeard will grow in nice and thick. Better than nothing, I suppose.
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Post by Nick P on Feb 11, 2015 13:12:35 GMT -6
There are no HQ's, the death jester, shadowseer, and solitaire are Elites.
So that's the controversy - unless they have a rule that allows you to use the DJ, SS, or Sol as an HQ for the purposes of the Allied Detachment or CaD, then they can only ever be taken in the form of a Masque, which is extremely limiting and honestly too homogeneous to be very fun or useful.
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Post by daniel, why on Feb 11, 2015 22:56:03 GMT -6
UNBOUND TOO
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Post by Joelercoaster on Feb 12, 2015 8:50:57 GMT -6
The butt-cannon seems a little awkward... although if the main weapon has at least a 180 arc, you can fly up the board sideways and generally find targets for both for a free split fire.
The prism cannon is pretty cool. Overall a decent craft for 75-80 points.
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Post by Nick P on Feb 12, 2015 9:15:46 GMT -6
I think of the butt cannon as a nice to have, but in all likelihood it would still probably be worth the 75/80 points without it. I think it gives them great protection from infiltrators and outflankers, and I think if you're crafty enough you'll be able to position this sucker so that it always has targets for front/back guns.
It'll be interesting to see if the prism cannon counts as pintle mounted, or what its arc of fire will be. I highly doubt 180 degrees, but then again when was the last time someone actually measured the angle from a viper or venom? More likely people will just be like "yeah whatever go for it"
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Post by Joelercoaster on Feb 12, 2015 12:41:30 GMT -6
I mean, there are a lot of vehicles (namely eldar) that don't have specific mountings, so it's up to the players at large to determine what they are "based on the model" (at least, that's what the 6th ed book said to do).
Given that those models are a guy with a spindle-mounted weapon, I personally find 180 (rotating from left to right) to be fairly reasonable. In any case, you're right that it will actually be fairly easy to use both, especially since you don't care what facing is where with AV10. Mainly, though - butt cannon.
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Post by Nick P on Feb 12, 2015 15:56:24 GMT -6
Actually that's a pretty good call with the eldar vehicles - none of the weapons have a specific mounting, unlike imperial vehicles with their "turrets" and "pintle mounts" and "sponsons". Apart from the Ravager sponsons, everything else is just "hey, use common sense please", so I think 180 degrees on the voidweaver stuff makes sense.
The only issue is the butt cannon, since it specifically can only target things in the rear armor, meaning it has a very specific 90 degree firing arc that the other weapons can't reach.
I do see a lot of shenanigans though with multiple voidweavers (assuming you can take a CaD somehow, fingers crossed) basically switching facings so that you are getting 2 shuriken cannons and a prism cannon vs each target the vehicles are targeting no matter what. Basically ignoring the butt cannon rules by trickery, how very eldar of us.
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