|
Post by Ah crap it's him on Dec 4, 2014 22:31:30 GMT -6
So what are your thoughts on these dudes?
I'm thinkin a sporocyst and two tyrannocytes. Or the other way around, I like these things (they can hold objectives?)
Aaannnd how would you outfit one? I'm thinking pods with cheap death spitters. Or venom cannons on spores for the super range and medium vehicle threat?
|
|
|
Post by Nick P on Dec 5, 2014 10:13:49 GMT -6
I don't like reading several pages of Tyranid posts, so I'll make a new one and pretend this wasn't already discussed in arduous detail much to Russell's chagrin. Got 'im.
|
|
|
Post by Nick P on Dec 5, 2014 10:18:44 GMT -6
No but in seriousness, the pods are a game changer. Absolutely phenomenal, well worth the 75 points a pop.
I wouldn't ever think to upgrade them to venom cannons or anything like that, since you want to keep the pods cheap considering you'll likely have a handful of them, and 15 S5 shots are nothing to sneeze at by any means. And with the inertial guidance rule similar to Drop Pods for SM, you won't usually find yourself scattering super far away from where you want to be, meaning you'll usually be in range with the deathspitters.
For the spores, I'm on the fence still. Jeff used 2 against me the other day, and they seemed like a really good idea - but I killed one on turn one with 12 devourer shots, and another I doubled out with warp blast on turn one, so we didn't get to see what they can do, really.
I would think they'd be a nice unit for board control - but you have to be careful with deployment. T5 is surprisingly easy to wound, so you're best off keeping them in heavy cover or completely out of LoS, ideally near an objective. If they can stay hidden from the enemy without a lot of work on your enemy's part dedicating units to go after them, I think you'll likely see them left alone, free to deliver spore unit after spore unit, or mucalids if your opponent is bringing flyers.
I would probably take either of them only in pairs at a minimum, since one pod sounds like it would just be killed on the turn it comes in, and one spore chimney is less of a threat and easily ignored.
|
|
|
Post by jefferestinpeace on Dec 5, 2014 10:44:09 GMT -6
Yeah, I need another chance with the Sporos; we didn't have a great example of them. Even one turn of pumping stuff out would have made a huge difference in the effectiveness, but Nick buttholed me on that. I think VCs have a place on Sporos though as they won't be in your opponent's face and aren't delivering any fragile cargo; the chances of a scatter coming back to bite you in the ass is low with them, and 5 S6 Blasts flying at your opponent's deployment seem awesome.
I think you could make one work with savvy deployment, essentially forcing your opponent to ignore it while the rest of your army focuses down one flank or something. However, Ruins cover is an absolute must have for these guys. Hope to get to try them again.
|
|
|
Post by Ah crap it's him on Dec 5, 2014 22:06:10 GMT -6
Wait don't they have limited firing arcs? Or can all 5 guns fire where ever?
|
|
|
Post by Nick P on Dec 5, 2014 23:57:44 GMT -6
They're not tanks, they're monstrous creatures...so they fire from their base, not each weapon itself. All 5 can (and must) shoot at the closest unit.
|
|
|
Post by Ah crap it's him on Dec 6, 2014 13:17:13 GMT -6
Hmmmm that's actually more dangerous than I'd originally thought. But probably should stick to cheap due to the T5... But with the lynchpin rule it makes a good rear objective/central board holder. Keep a venom close and use it to extend your rear synapse
|
|
|
Post by Joelercoaster on Dec 6, 2014 16:24:05 GMT -6
Well, the rules are a little extra-wonky for this thing shooting. I'm of the opinion that you measure from each gun, not the base, as the rule specifically says that different guns can end up firing at different targets - literally impossible if you follow the standard MC rules.
Either way, there's nothing to stop the typical 360 fire arc, and the weapons are top-mounted with full visibility. So yeah. Expect 15 shots to go at something or other, if you're in range.
I worry about blasts on a BS2 unit that you can't tell "Don't fire near that horde!". Of course, it depends, ultimately, on what units you're running in the first place. If you're MC heavy, pile up on whatever - S4 large blasts don't scare you, and they'll add some fairly inexpensive crowd control.
|
|
|
Post by Nick P on Dec 7, 2014 18:18:05 GMT -6
You would still measure from the base, since its a monstrous creature - my interpretation is that you shoot each gun one at a time at the closest unit, and if at any point the closest unit is dead, then remaining guns would shoot at the next closest, etc.
|
|
|
Post by Joelercoaster on Dec 7, 2014 18:21:22 GMT -6
An interesting point. I'm basically reading the little WD blurb as the actual intent behind the mechanic, which... obviously has its flaws... but the whole thing functions differently than "standard".
I would much, much, much, much, much rather it work as you describe, as it would allow me some flexibility in modelling, rather than absolutely require 5 deathspitters in a pinwheel formation, which I see as slightly silly.
In other news, what size base are these bad boys on? Anyone crack open a box proper yet?
|
|
|
Post by jefferestinpeace on Dec 7, 2014 18:50:42 GMT -6
A problem with Nick's idea is that there's nothing that states they fire individually. The rules for Shooting state that each "type" of weapon fires simultaneously, and all these bad boys are the same. I know it operates outside of the normal rules for shooting, but it's so unspecific in so much of what it does. I really think that, until we get an FAQ, kinda gotta just shoot all five at the closest target every time.
For those going against one of these, just park some high value armor close to this thing. As long as it's AV12 on the facing, only Venom Cannon Cysts/Cytes can hurt it, which you won't see too often.
|
|
|
Post by Ah crap it's him on Dec 7, 2014 19:47:01 GMT -6
It is 3 and 7/8ths inches ... My Warhammer ruler doesn't do metric apparently.
I got two of these bad boys. One sporocyst the other a tyrannocyte. Thinking I may rip up the spore and build it back into a tyrannocyte.
I love the idea of the spore, but I have to admit... It just doesn't bring enough for 75 points. At 100 it is much more useful. Dropping S6 or objective clearing large blasts but it is too easily mitigated, ignored or dealt with.
As it looks to me it has one grand function, to be infiltrated into the middle of the board, but just close enough that a venom at deployment edge can give smoke. And used as a shrouded "must deal with" T5 line of sight blocker for your advancing hoard. (If it looks like you are gonna have to go second).
The thing is HUGE after all, and it definitely can give raveners/warriors line of sight blocking ability, and hefty cover to anything else.
Out side of this I have begun to feel that the points are better spent on mines themselves, or as a pod which can at least move towards objectives and get in the way more.
But still how cool does it look? Spitting out mines... (If it lives 5 rounds it spits out it's points worth in mines... But maybe just it's points worth in mines would be better?)
|
|
|
Post by Nick P on Dec 8, 2014 7:45:32 GMT -6
Joel its a new base size, 100mm round.
My only problem with Jeff's interpretation of it, is that it specifically says that the guns can fire at different targets - if they all shoot at the same time, that isn't an option, so its clear they didn't intend for it to fire at the same time.
Classic case of GW needing just 1 more sentence to clear up a glaring rules inconsistency. "PS measure from the guns and fire them individually. kthxbai."
|
|
|
Post by Joelercoaster on Dec 8, 2014 14:22:35 GMT -6
Yeah, the only thing clear about the rule is that it's meant to function differently.
So long as we can come up with a standard way to do it in the meantime I'm happy.
What I want is to just fire all five at the single nearest target. Clean and easy, especially if you're using the blasts.
What I think happens is each gun, measured like a vehicle, shoots at the nearest target to itself.
Don't actually care which way gets picked. They still carry gribblies for me.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 8, 2014 15:36:10 GMT -6
I'm not quite sure what the rules are for sure, but it sounds like the tyranid spore things function just like the firestorm redoubt and the vengeance weapon batteries. Those imperial fortifications have an automated targeting system that forces them to shoot the nearest thing. Atleast in the case of the firestorm redoubt, all four lascannon shots have to go on the same target.
|
|