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Post by Deleted on Oct 18, 2014 23:36:59 GMT -6
Ouch, so I think that expensive 4+ FNP might be worth it. Is it possible to up the Archon's toughness?
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Post by Russell on Oct 19, 2014 0:03:05 GMT -6
Just give him mark of nurgle
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Post by Russell on Oct 19, 2014 0:03:14 GMT -6
On a bike
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Post by Deleted on Oct 19, 2014 0:05:05 GMT -6
On a thunderwolf
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Post by Joelercoaster on Oct 19, 2014 7:39:30 GMT -6
Back to the conversion board... if I build it that way, it's legal, right? RIght??? To answer your questions, Will - No, it is in no way possible to give the Archon a higher Toughness. No more access to Drugs (which would be a 1-in-6 chance), no bikes... always a T3 character. So yes, the save is great, even better (and again, over 50% more expensive) than before... but it's super easy to just pile wounds onto the model (unless, of course, you stick him with a bunch of Sslyth... muwahahaha). That 4+ FnP is only in the Coven Supplement (well, it's a +1 to FNP) - it also can be destroyed, and (maybe?) can only be taken by the Haemonculi. That is to say, I don't know if Archons/Succubi made it into that supplement as HQ's. So while that Haemy is extra very durable, that's basically what Haemy's are for - they're the durable DE. Bring on the T4, baby!! Note that the Coven supplement has a different PFP chart... so even if I can pick up that book and make my normal Kabalite army from it, NOTHING will get Feel No Pain (except those models that already have it built in). So actually, barring the Chronos Babysitter, it's actually impossible for an Archon to get a 4+ FnP on top of the Shadow Field, unless I've missed something huge. Anyway, the real nastiness is toting a Farseer along with Fortune, so you can just re-roll the save in the first place As for Flyers... I mean... yeah. They can be tough to deal with, period. Dark Eldar really don't have too many tools to deal with them either... our flyers are "okay"... I guess the Vendetta still makes most look like a kid's toy army plane, despite its new cost. Just... so... effin'... good. Ah well. What's your current reason for no allied AA? Don't like allies? Don't like the AA options you have through them? Too much of a points investment/tax just to bring a flyer of your own? I'm sure we can find a way to make it work. Nick often relies on his 389 lance weapons (per 500 points) to just fire willy nilly into the air until something falls down... I'm not overly familiar with the new Sisters book, but I know they used to be able to pump out melta in much the same way. Maybe more MSU-esque building would give the special weapon saturation you need to give you enough shots?
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Post by Deleted on Oct 19, 2014 8:15:30 GMT -6
As for Flyers... I mean... yeah. They can be tough to deal with, period. Dark Eldar really don't have too many tools to deal with them either... our flyers are "okay"... I guess the Vendetta still makes most look like a kid's toy army plane, despite its new cost. Just... so... effin'... good. Ah well. What's your current reason for no allied AA? Don't like allies? Don't like the AA options you have through them? Too much of a points investment/tax just to bring a flyer of your own? I'm sure we can find a way to make it work. Nick often relies on his 389 lance weapons (per 500 points) to just fire willy nilly into the air until something falls down... I'm not overly familiar with the new Sisters book, but I know they used to be able to pump out melta in much the same way. Maybe more MSU-esque building would give the special weapon saturation you need to give you enough shots? I tend to run MSU with a fair amount of melta/multi-meltas. As for allies, I can take any imperial force, and I've toyed around with the idea of inquisition just to get some valkyries, but but compared to the vendetta they aren't that great. That leaves AM as an obvious choice then, but every time I muse taking AM allies, it basically becomes AM with sister allies, because the sisters only have few really great units (St. Celestine, immolators, and exorcists namely), and the cost to take guard can get pretty high. Issues with the ADL is that for 100pts I think it should really be manned, but I don't have any unit with the range to really utilize it aside from some heavy bolters. The flyer I do have access to is pretty good offensivly, puts out alot of shots, 5 at Str 6 Ap 3 and 2 at Str 9 Ap 2, but its only two hull points and av 11/10/10 for 150 points, which means it literally blows up the turn after it comes in Every time. It is also only BS vs. Airtargets, and nothings twin-linked. In most games thus far I can use the Multi-Meltas to drop vehicle flyers, but against FMCs that doesn't work very well. Although sisters can take a ton of special weapons, they only have access to three: flamers, melta, and bolters. I would kill for some str 6 or 7, plasma or an assault cannon.
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Post by Joelercoaster on Oct 19, 2014 9:09:10 GMT -6
That flyer doesn't sound all that bad to me. The majority of Flyers are probably AV10 all around (which actually makes me think that Dissies on a Razorwing are a valid AA option to some extent).
Compare your flyer to our "heavy" guy... the Void Raven. 2 S9 shots, and a one-use Bomb. 3 HP, but AV10 all around. For 160. Compared to the... whatever from Eldar, for I think the same cost, where you get 4 S8 shots, 2 of which are lances. But you have to pay 5 points for Night Fight.... and have the option to upgrade to an Exarch for BS5 and other special abilities. Or maybe the Exarch is 160 points? gee, wonder which one I think is better...
Long story short, dedicated AA is *very* good at dropping air targets, the exception being the storm raven (which costs as much as a land raider), and the Vendetta/Valk, which... are just... still really stupidly good. So the plus side, is that your squad of Dominions with HB's may be the perfect accompaniment to a Quad Gun. You have the rate of fire to expect a few 6's, and then S5 can legitimately threaten AV10 (or T6). I *think* you can even put the Sgt (or ablative wound) using the gun, have that model Intercept, and then the rest of the squad fires during the normal phase. I may be wrong on that... but even if I am, again I really think HB's would be a good fit for it.
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Post by Nick P on Oct 19, 2014 20:42:02 GMT -6
Joel you're spot on about the interceptor rule for the ADL - it only prevents the weapon (or model, if it only has one weapon) that used interceptor from shooting in the shooting phase; so the rest of her squad can totally still shoot.
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mike
Butts
Posts: 628
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Post by mike on Oct 19, 2014 23:53:20 GMT -6
Yeah shadowfields. They're really cool now. It's easier for these archon guys (with T5 sslyth or grotesques obv) to eat small arms fire and allows us to be much more aggressive with the unit against large blobs of infantry as they're less likely to ruin us with weight of fire.
Will, why not take the stormwing formation? Two storm talons and a storm raven, none of the silly IG chaff Nephilim Jetfighter?
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Post by Nick P on Oct 20, 2014 7:33:59 GMT -6
Will just unbind that shit and take 3 vendettas with your sisters; no rerolls or super scoring, but you'll rule the skies forever. Honestly, not super-scoring isn't the worst...the new DE formation doesn't give ob-sec, and I've managed to win fully half of my games without it (1 out of 2).
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Post by Russell on Oct 20, 2014 7:49:58 GMT -6
That record speaks for itself.
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dex
neophyte
STATUS
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Post by dex on Nov 11, 2014 10:20:44 GMT -6
If it says wound then I would go RAW to is sticking around.
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Post by Nick P on Nov 11, 2014 10:33:13 GMT -6
I don't know who this "dex" is, but I like his 60-day overdue hot-take on FNP. Welcome DEX
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Post by Joelercoaster on Nov 11, 2014 10:44:29 GMT -6
Dex agrees with me, and that's good enough for anyone.
Dex for 2015!!
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mike
Butts
Posts: 628
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Post by mike on Nov 11, 2014 12:30:18 GMT -6
I've voted for dex since 2013 and he has yet to let me down.
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