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Post by Joelercoaster on Aug 21, 2014 8:43:57 GMT -6
The 'lencers aren't the be-all, end-all... but it's potentially potent. I mean, Nids by nature just have the best targets for them, really.
Multi-wound T4 (found in many armies, but in droves in Nids) are prime. 4+ to wound, 4+ (at best, barring cover) save. A basic psilencer can be expected to drop a warrior, or anything in 4+ cover, in one phase.
T6 is harder, obviously, but we Nids know that enough S4 *does* eventually lay on the hurts... and when it only takes a single failed save... well. 6 shots = 4 hits = 1.something wounds. So basically you're looking at a Tyrant/Fex/Trygon/Exocrine/Tervigon/Haruphart and saying "pass this save or die". You will *probably* pass that save. But there is a real (33%) chance that you will not. And that's *per* gun, of which about every squad can take at least 2.
The saving grace is that while it's pretty awesome against a *lot* of Nid units, it's not nearly as awesome against a lot of other units... it will have utility vs characters, but for the most part it's a high RoF S4 gun.
As far as the Psycannon goes... yeah, it's less good. But, in fairness, you already wanted to stand still to get the full 4 shots anyway. A 12" 2-shot assault weapon at that Strength is not terrible. It's like xenos plasma, sans AP. It's best if you hunker down and lay out the S6 goodness, but is mobile in a pinch. It kind of was already salvo before salvo was a thing, now it's just in line with all the other salvo weapons. Because, you know, salvo. And yes, Terminators. Because Terminators.
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Post by Nick P on Aug 21, 2014 10:09:31 GMT -6
So back to the list - any major glaring errors I need to rectify? Planning on trying 3 different lists this weekend if time permits at Wanderers. One is more balanced with smaller gribblies, one is this list with mostly monsters and flyers, and one is with a barbed heirodule just because its hilarious.
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Post by Joelercoaster on Aug 21, 2014 11:02:03 GMT -6
I need to check the points cost on the base Skyblight. It's still pretty dirty-good. ObSec returning gargoyles, mainly, but none of the "tax" units are actually bad, either. You'll probably even want the harpies to deal with infantry. It's an investment into air units, but that's not a bad thing - they're all shooty and extra durable now.
So, after some quick math, with the basic (Dual-Devs Tyrant, no other upgrades anywhere, min 3 garg broods) 'blight, you have 1k left to spend, which is really pretty solid.
Yes, I realize this is telling you to COMPLETELY CHANGE your list, so feel free to ignore it. But it's an awesome formation.
Apropos, did anyone ever figure out if formations gain ObSec? Or otherwise break the BatBound format? I haven't really paid any attention. The Endless Swarm, if it still has ObjSec, is actually extra hilarious. For objectives, not for actually doing anything else. But whatevs.
As to the list. Really, it doesn't matter all that much. You're a competent player, and Nids can hold ground, if played well, vs most things.
The question is not "Is this list alright"... the list is fine, and you'll play it well. The question is "Can this list beat 4 Knights, plus 350 spare points in random GK or Inq allies (answer, no). Or, "Can this list beat shooty Tau". Answer... questionable. But those things are just kind of things at this point.
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Post by Nick P on Aug 21, 2014 11:31:33 GMT -6
It has to be specific to the formation - so skyblight gets it, if its in the special rules for endless swarm, then they also get it. But living artillery node, etc do not.
I've got a border-line skyblight already (minus gargs) but what's painting 45 gargoyles compared to 60-70 termagants? Plus I can include 2 more tyrants, a terv, and 30 gants in the primary formation for the remaining points...might even have room for a malanthrope in there...definitely worth the look.
The biggest issue is going to be finding time to paint all that new stuff in the next 3ish weeks...woof.
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Post by jefferestinpeace on Aug 21, 2014 11:35:48 GMT -6
Only units in the CAD get ObSec, or in the case of Skyblight, where the formation specifically grants it. Special rules are on an attachment by attachment basis.
Nick, I've heard great things about the Barbed Hierodule. Especially with the Relic. Simply the Agile thing and Moving 12" a turn... not so funny. Fucking amazing is more like it. If Adepticon adopts the BAO unit allowances that seem to be spreading, you'll see a lot of them for Nids. I mean, that's how you fuck up a Knight.
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Post by Russell on Aug 21, 2014 11:58:16 GMT -6
I have it on good authority that painting gargoyles is terrible.
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Post by Joelercoaster on Aug 22, 2014 7:13:53 GMT -6
Can you move the relic more than 6" now? Or is it just getting there fast that helps?
At least the Endless Swarm is normal-scoring, but shoooot. It would have made that an actual potentially "good" formation if they had it built in. Such a shame.
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Post by Nick P on Aug 22, 2014 7:45:03 GMT -6
Dude anything that gives you a 50% chance to bring back 200 points for free is amazing, I'm not looking that gift horse in the mouth
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Post by David P on Aug 22, 2014 7:46:52 GMT -6
Do you have a link for the Indy GT page? Was watching a Battle Report where they were playing practice games for NOVA and some interesting points were brought up. First off they did not play complete games as this game takes a while to set up and takes a lot out of players. They would set up and play 2-3 turns and then analyze their deployment and initial mistakes.
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Post by Nick P on Aug 22, 2014 7:56:37 GMT -6
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Post by Nick P on Aug 22, 2014 7:58:00 GMT -6
And David that actually sounds like a good idea - I think I'll aim to do that this weekend at wanderers, if my opponents don't mind; i feel like deployment and the initial few turns are always the most crucial, so getting a lot of practice at that segment of the game would be great.
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Post by David P on Aug 22, 2014 8:04:30 GMT -6
Ahh, I was getting tourneys from 2011 and some in Texas. Here's the **link** to the battle report. It's interesting in how they prepared. I have not played 7th yet, but some of the things I have seen look like it's a very different game in terms of scoring. I get the feeling that destroying the opponent has been toned down in favor of movement, denial and blocking. |
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Post by Joelercoaster on Aug 22, 2014 15:10:59 GMT -6
Dude anything that gives you a 50% chance to bring back 200 points for free is amazing, I'm not looking that gift horse in the mouth Bringing back stuff is solid. Bringing back stuff with a 12" range from your table edge is... questionable. All it means is that you really, really, really, really, really should be bringing at least 1 Trygon, and quite possibly 2, so that you can have selection on where to bring buggers from. Sometimes bringing stuff on from your edge will be fine - put objectives near your board, and done, they're scored at the end for free. But most are likely to be at least halfway up the table, and if something walks back on turn 4, the chances of it getting there are... shrug. Maybe not as terrible as I'm thinking, and I'd liek to find out its not. But the best way to get effect from the formation is definitely to give them access to a new route on the board. This, essentially, is what makes the Skyblight SO EFFING GOOD. Not only do you get a bunch of FMC's, which are some of our great units, but you get access to ObjSec, returning, DEEP STRIKING, FAST units. Gargoyles will be making it back to mid board even without DS within 2 turns, without need to run. That leaves room to be tactical, harness cover, etc, that you may have to ignore in favor of pure inch-speed for the walkers. I mean, face it... for one more point than a hormagaunt, a gargoyle has, basically, all of the bonuses. The big thing basic gaunts have is being super-scoring... which now these gargoyles are. It's just too good. Go ahead, niddlies, buy more flyers. |
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