Nid MC's and the newfangled rules - CC builds more viable?
Jul 15, 2014 10:23:33 GMT -6
Nick P likes this
Post by Joelercoaster on Jul 15, 2014 10:23:33 GMT -6
Werd.
So I tried something under the few games of 7th I've played with my Bugs.
Hormagaunts.
I can easily forgive them for not having grenades, despite having a solid (downright good, even) Initiative. They're still a swarm, so the few you'll lose in the first round fall into the "acceptable losses" category. The problem I had with them was that they weren't reliably hitting combat. Even with fleet, charging through cover (which is often enough the case to matter) they were getting slowed down too much, and their threat range just wasn't threatening enough.
But lo and behold, yon skittering friends, Move Through Cover now helps in the assault phase! Meaning our fleet units actually have a legitimate threat range, that is moderately reliable thanks to the re-rolls that fleet allows. Hormagaunts are now pretty reliably pulling off a turn 2 charge, not "oh, they can charge on turn 2, unless there's any cover on the board, in which case they get bogged down til turn 3 or so meaning they just get shot until they're too small to be useable".
Yeah.
So, this gets me pretty excited actually, as I can finally run hormagaunts again without feeling terrible about myself. They do a decent job of doing the job they're meant to do (that is to say, a front line clog unit, that can drag a thing or two down with it).
So wee for those gribblies. But as we, the great gestalt, know, one of our biggest issues of the day is (once again) dealing with enemy armor. Tyrants and Tervigons are no longer looking like good solutions to certain vehicles. Granted, vs rear AV10 these bugs will still be tearing holes pretty easily. It's the biggun's, and walkers, that pose real issues. Awkwardly enough, 99% of walkers will now spell ultimate and irrevocable defeat to most of our MC's. Womp.
The question, then, is if the new MTC has given our gribblies a boost, is it enough to bring CC-build MC's back into the fray? Yes, the Brainleech Devourer will always be a solid option. But it has the same issue vs AV 14 that S6 in combat does.
Here's the thing. I would love to throw down a Screamer Killer build (well, sans the bio-plasma, because I want them to be running anyway). It's just hard to look at a Carnifex and *not* auto-glue the devourers on at this point. And we all know how painful a footslogging CC beatstick can be (although the Nid book seems to be full of them). But maybe, just maybe, the threat range is, as with hormagaunts, reliable enough now that it's worth taking as a legitimate option.
Crushing Claws start to stand out, too. Because what else is a S6 bug going to do? Tervigons may want to start equipping those in order to look scary for vehicles. And dare I say it? The Haruspex. Comparing a CC fex to a Haruspex, the 'spex is a fair bit more expensive, in exchange for an extra wound, a couple of abilities that don't really matter (the tongue and acid blood), and a couple of abilities that matter a little bit (bonus wound, mini-regen, mini-rampage). If the rampage thing was not reliant on the charge, I'd actually give the 'spex kudos for being better vs infantry (by nature of more attacks) but as it doesn't even have a pair of weapons, that's basically mitigated by the fexes HoW bonus and extra attack on a CC build. Plus, the fex doesn't really need crushing claws. So probably ignore that I even said that, but if you've had better luck then let me know?
Long story short, is I think a pair of CC fexen running up the board (not in a brood, because I want mobility options) would actually threaten some things. Also, I want a real excuse to buy a second 2nd edition Fex and have a pair of them running amuck. I may also whip out an old Tyrant as an actual tyrant, and some old plastic gaunts, because 2nd ed armies roll better.
Anyone have any thoughts? Tried it out at all yet? Maybe enough CC MC threats will end up steamrolling turn 2 or 3. You'd need to use cover and probably venomthropes, because they're not in any way super survivable... but still. It's a thought.
So I tried something under the few games of 7th I've played with my Bugs.
Hormagaunts.
I can easily forgive them for not having grenades, despite having a solid (downright good, even) Initiative. They're still a swarm, so the few you'll lose in the first round fall into the "acceptable losses" category. The problem I had with them was that they weren't reliably hitting combat. Even with fleet, charging through cover (which is often enough the case to matter) they were getting slowed down too much, and their threat range just wasn't threatening enough.
But lo and behold, yon skittering friends, Move Through Cover now helps in the assault phase! Meaning our fleet units actually have a legitimate threat range, that is moderately reliable thanks to the re-rolls that fleet allows. Hormagaunts are now pretty reliably pulling off a turn 2 charge, not "oh, they can charge on turn 2, unless there's any cover on the board, in which case they get bogged down til turn 3 or so meaning they just get shot until they're too small to be useable".
Yeah.
So, this gets me pretty excited actually, as I can finally run hormagaunts again without feeling terrible about myself. They do a decent job of doing the job they're meant to do (that is to say, a front line clog unit, that can drag a thing or two down with it).
So wee for those gribblies. But as we, the great gestalt, know, one of our biggest issues of the day is (once again) dealing with enemy armor. Tyrants and Tervigons are no longer looking like good solutions to certain vehicles. Granted, vs rear AV10 these bugs will still be tearing holes pretty easily. It's the biggun's, and walkers, that pose real issues. Awkwardly enough, 99% of walkers will now spell ultimate and irrevocable defeat to most of our MC's. Womp.
The question, then, is if the new MTC has given our gribblies a boost, is it enough to bring CC-build MC's back into the fray? Yes, the Brainleech Devourer will always be a solid option. But it has the same issue vs AV 14 that S6 in combat does.
Here's the thing. I would love to throw down a Screamer Killer build (well, sans the bio-plasma, because I want them to be running anyway). It's just hard to look at a Carnifex and *not* auto-glue the devourers on at this point. And we all know how painful a footslogging CC beatstick can be (although the Nid book seems to be full of them). But maybe, just maybe, the threat range is, as with hormagaunts, reliable enough now that it's worth taking as a legitimate option.
Crushing Claws start to stand out, too. Because what else is a S6 bug going to do? Tervigons may want to start equipping those in order to look scary for vehicles. And dare I say it? The Haruspex. Comparing a CC fex to a Haruspex, the 'spex is a fair bit more expensive, in exchange for an extra wound, a couple of abilities that don't really matter (the tongue and acid blood), and a couple of abilities that matter a little bit (bonus wound, mini-regen, mini-rampage). If the rampage thing was not reliant on the charge, I'd actually give the 'spex kudos for being better vs infantry (by nature of more attacks) but as it doesn't even have a pair of weapons, that's basically mitigated by the fexes HoW bonus and extra attack on a CC build. Plus, the fex doesn't really need crushing claws. So probably ignore that I even said that, but if you've had better luck then let me know?
Long story short, is I think a pair of CC fexen running up the board (not in a brood, because I want mobility options) would actually threaten some things. Also, I want a real excuse to buy a second 2nd edition Fex and have a pair of them running amuck. I may also whip out an old Tyrant as an actual tyrant, and some old plastic gaunts, because 2nd ed armies roll better.
Anyone have any thoughts? Tried it out at all yet? Maybe enough CC MC threats will end up steamrolling turn 2 or 3. You'd need to use cover and probably venomthropes, because they're not in any way super survivable... but still. It's a thought.
