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Post by kingwalnut on Feb 18, 2019 10:34:01 GMT -6
Okay, so not the ruinous powers so much as people who know them well. I've been running pure Black Legion for a while and I am looking to shake it up by adding some different elements. This has mostly been in the vein of adding demons to the army, but I am open to other ideas as well. I am looking for an army comp that does some shooting, some charging, and a fair amount of psychic. Thousand Sons are on my radar, but I don't want to go whole hog on Thousand Sons as the army is not overall what I want. What I have been considering is Nurgle Demons! They look very gross (read: cool) and I like that they are generally durable as hell. However, I am also open to other ideas like Khorne demons, more demon engines, traitor guard, etc.
This is a list I have been theory crafting and I am looking for feedback from Chaos players who have experience with Nurgle demons and if people think this list has some potential to work. I am undecided on warlord and relics and this is still a work in progress and the point totals are still a little in flux.
EDIT: Considering dropping the tree to stay within 3 detachments. Any impressions on if it useful in the grand scheme of things?
Battalion Detachment: Nurgle Demons
HQ: Poxbringer (Virulent Blessing), Poxbringer (Miasma of Pestilence), Spoilpox Scrivener
Troop: Plaguebearers x25 (with icon and instrument), Plaguebearers x25 (with icon and instrument), Nurglings
Fortification Network: Nurgle Demons
Feculant Gnarlmaw
Spearhead Detachment: Black Legion
HQ: Winged Demon Prince of Nurgle (Warp Time), Chaos Lord in Terminator Armor
Heavy Support: Obliterators (Mark of Slaneesh), Obliterators (Mark of Slaneesh), Defiler/Maulerfiend (unsure yet)
Super Heavy Auxillary: Renegade Knights
Armiger Helverin x2
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The theory is that the armigers can lay down fire turn one as the plaguebearers are moving up the board with a 7" move plus advance. The demon prince warp times the defiler forward for a T1 charge threat and to soak up some fire early. The tree would ideally be in position to either give me early cover or spring board a charge on T2. On T2, oblitz come down with the chaos lord behind the plaguebearer screen. Ideally the plague bearers are getting full use of the tree cover or using it to charge something, or both! This army would focus on controlling the middle of the board to control objectives. The armigers and defiler would be moving quickly so there wouldn't be a vulnerable back line. The whole army would move forward as one.
Looking forward to critiques and ideas. Thanks!
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Post by ocotako7 on Feb 18, 2019 11:04:06 GMT -6
Does a fortification network count against the 3 detachment maximum for 2k points?
I cant offer much else in how it will play, but I think its worth trying out. I say proxy some guardsman as some walkers!
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doubleback
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Post by doubleback on Feb 18, 2019 11:10:07 GMT -6
A couple thoughts-
If you find them getting targeted (and mine almost always are), consider trading the mark on your oblits to Nurgle if they are being stationed under the tree. The extra cover save makes them 2+, and much harder to knock down.
I am fairly certain the Daemon Prince of Nurgle specifically cannot take Warp Time, he is a DG specific unit and has to use the DG powers. Are you using the specifically all caps named NDP, or are you taking a regular prince and giving him the mark? It just comes down to whether you want Disgustingly Resilient or not.
Lastly, just out of curiosity, what made you go with Helverins over Deredeos? I personally prefer the later with butcher cannons, but a lot of people clearly like the new Armigers
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Post by kingwalnut on Feb 18, 2019 11:10:31 GMT -6
Does a fortification network count against the 3 detachment maximum for 2k points? I cant offer much else in how it will play, but I think its worth trying out. I say proxy some guardsman as some walkers! Is it 3 detach limit? I thought it was 4  I guess I would ask if my opponent is fine with it. It isn't like a 4th detachment of knight or Mortarion. I feel like a fortification detachment, that would blend in fine with the demons battalion if it were allowed, is borderline |
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Post by kingwalnut on Feb 18, 2019 11:12:16 GMT -6
A couple thoughts- If you find them getting targeted (and mine almost always are), consider trading the mark on your oblits to Nurgle if they are being stationed under the tree. The extra cover save makes them 2+, and much harder to knock down. I am fairly certain the Daemon Prince of Nurgle specifically cannot take Warp Time, he is a DG specific unit and has to use the DG powers. Are you using the specifically all caps named NDP, or are you taking a regular prince and giving him the mark? It just comes down to whether you want Disgustingly Resilient or not. Lastly, just out of curiosity, what made you go with Helverins over Deredeos? I personally prefer the later with butcher cannons, but a lot of people clearly like the new Armigers The slaneeshi oblits are just to double shoot. I have heard nurgle oblitz are frustratingly hard to kill so that might be fun! haha! It would be a CSM prince with mark of nurgle and nurgle allegiance. And I am choosing the helverins because I already have one and don't want to stop using it haha! |
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doubleback
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Post by doubleback on Feb 18, 2019 11:12:24 GMT -6
Scratch that, you are moving the Armigers forward, makes total sense why you would choose them.
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doubleback
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Posts: 1,262
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Post by doubleback on Feb 18, 2019 11:18:41 GMT -6
A couple thoughts- If you find them getting targeted (and mine almost always are), consider trading the mark on your oblits to Nurgle if they are being stationed under the tree. The extra cover save makes them 2+, and much harder to knock down. I am fairly certain the Daemon Prince of Nurgle specifically cannot take Warp Time, he is a DG specific unit and has to use the DG powers. Are you using the specifically all caps named NDP, or are you taking a regular prince and giving him the mark? It just comes down to whether you want Disgustingly Resilient or not. Lastly, just out of curiosity, what made you go with Helverins over Deredeos? I personally prefer the later with butcher cannons, but a lot of people clearly like the new Armigers The slaneeshi oblits are just to double shoot. I have heard nurgle oblitz are frustratingly hard to kill so that might be fun! haha! It would be a CSM prince with mark of nurgle and nurgle allegiance. And I am choosing the helverins because I already have one and don't want to stop using it haha! Cool, just remember you don't get DR on him. I think it is a solid list, very Death Guard like. If you enjoy the playstyle of this list, consider coming over to Papa Nurgle's favorite fighters. That said, with all the new stuff coming out I see myself putting a Black Legion detachment into my DG army in the near future.... |
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Post by kingwalnut on Feb 18, 2019 11:27:30 GMT -6
Thanks! And yeah, I am not looking to give the DP disgustingly resilient. I would make him a DG demon prince, but I think the 2 poxbringers and scrivener are too important to give up. I will gladly join Papa Nurgle in his garden with my Black Legion buddies.
Black Legion and vanilla CSM is fun, but I just wasn't feeling the playstyle. I have lots of fun with armies that want to move and charge I am finding out instead of castling up. Even if that means it is weaker overall.
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doubleback
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Post by doubleback on Feb 18, 2019 13:33:29 GMT -6
Yeah I am very interested in the venom crawler, as it's description seems to suggest it might make Demon/CSM soups more synergistic. We need something out there to even the score with Imperial Soup armies, especially with the new Assassin release.
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Post by kingwalnut on Feb 18, 2019 16:04:28 GMT -6
I am thinking about dropping the tree to stay at 3 detachments. I do not know how useful it is overall. I look at the other detachments and I don't think there is a good way to maintain the same fire power from dropping the oblits or the helverins and I obviously cannot drop the nurgle battalion. One work around might be adding more Chaos firepower to the spearhead and dropping the armigers in order to keep the tree IF it is that useful. doubleback do you think two deredeos could replace helverin firepower? |
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jesse
neophyte
Posts: 732
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Post by jesse on Feb 18, 2019 17:44:59 GMT -6
Can you summon in the tree?
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doubleback
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Posts: 1,262
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Post by doubleback on Feb 18, 2019 18:49:04 GMT -6
I am thinking about dropping the tree to stay at 3 detachments. I do not know how useful it is overall. I look at the other detachments and I don't think there is a good way to maintain the same fire power from dropping the oblits or the helverins and I obviously cannot drop the nurgle battalion. One work around might be adding more Chaos firepower to the spearhead and dropping the armigers in order to keep the tree IF it is that useful. doubleback do you think two deredeos could replace helverin firepower? I dropped the tree long ago, it just doesn't seem to pay for itself. Are you asking if a Deredeo is better than a Helvarin, or if two Deredeos are? The answer in my mind is yes either way, because I find Butcher Cannons to be the superior weapon, and the Deredeos have a better BS. Also it's indirect fire from the launcher had saved my ass several times. That said keeping mind that mine can move and fire at Full BS, so that might change the equation a bit |
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Post by kingwalnut on Feb 27, 2019 12:06:01 GMT -6
Okay, so after some thinking I have been planning a new list that does not use Nurgle demons. As much as I love that list idea, it would be around $340 to get everything I need and I don't want to wait to build it. Here is the new version of the chaos list I have in mind. This list comes in at 1995 points.
Idea is very much the same as the last one. Defiler and Chaos Spawn blitz forward with the Exalted Champion on foot. Defiler T1 charge is still a potential threat with Warp Time AND the sorcerer ideally gives the Defiler a 4++ with Weaver of Fates. Armigers shoot T1 while the cultist blob takes up space. Abbadon keeps them fearless. Top of 2, I use Chaos Familiar and swap out Weaver of Fates for Prescience. T2, Oblitz drop behind the cultist screen and next to Abby to get those rerolls. Whatever is left of the Spawn/ Defiler will close distance ideally. The rest of the army lives in the middle of the board while the armigers and obliterators blow up anything that needs to die and everything else holds board control.
I think the Spawn/Defiler put some great early game pressure on shooting them instead of the armigers in the back. If you don't put your lascannons at the Defiler, he will be in your face with the Chaos Spawn next turn. Considering swapping the Exalted Champ out for some other HQ (Dark Apostle? Chaos Lord on Bike?). I know the oblitz and helverins can put some hurt on a lot of stuff and the need to die to a man thanks to Tide of Traitors and Abbadon's fearless aura. I am also considering ditching the Rubrics because they don't have a firm use case, but they just look so pretty and act as fluffy body guards for the despoiler.
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Battalion Detachment: Black Legion
HQ: Abbadon the Despoiler (Warlord), Sorceror with Jump pack (Weaver of Fates, Warp Time, Mark of Tzeentch)
TROOP: Chaos Cultists x40, Chaos Space Marines, Chaos Space Marines
ELITE: Rubric Marines x5 (Soulreaper Cannon)
FAST ATTACK: Chaos Spawn x5, Chaos Spawn x5
Spearhead Detachment: Black Legion
HQ: Exalted Champion
HEAVY SUPPORT: Defiler (Reaper Autocannon, Defiler Scourge, Mark of Tzeentch), Obliterators (Mark of Slaneesh), Obliterators (Mark of Slaneesh)
Super Heavy Auxiliary: Renegade Knights
Armiger Helverins x2
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I will be coming into the Death Guard half of Dark Imperium at a bargain price soon so a slow grow Nurgle army might be in my future anyway. I have another list idea where I put poxwalkers and cultists together for the Dead Walk Again screen, but I still think the above list is way more focused.
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doubleback
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Post by doubleback on Feb 27, 2019 20:27:34 GMT -6
I love Nurgle and all his glory, but poxwalkers are in a rough place right now. They aren't a terrible screen, but I think plague bearers are waaaaay better. I've seen a single turn of dedicate fire utterly wipe a full unit of poxwalkers out.
The dead walk again cultist screen was amazing until they took away the poxwalker's ability to ever exceed their original unit size. Makes that strats main use for when two units of poxwalker's converge on something, doubling your kill replacements.
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