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Post by Russell on Nov 3, 2013 13:09:48 GMT -6
Okay, so I think I want to run High Elves for the 2400 point tournament and I wanted to bounce some ideas off you(r) boners.
I know for certain that I want to run a silver helm bus with two 5 man squads of fast cav reavers for my core.
If I were to bring archers, it would be to act as a bunker for the archmage. Now, I don't know if I would rather throw the mage on a steed stuff him into the silver helm bus. If I did that, I would want to insure he is in the second rank; to do that I would need to have full command and two other characters, most likely the BSB and a second noble to keep the cost down. With this setup I believe lore of life would be a solid choice for the bus as the lore attribute could keep the nobles' wounds topped off and he could bring back the rank and file.
For special choices, the obvious pick would be bus of white lions, probably 7x4, and the banner of the world dragon. Their lion cloaks give them a 3+ against shooting so, barring a big fat stone thrower hit, they should prove to be resilient against BS shooting and magic missile fuckery If I didn't stick the archmage in the silver helm bus, I would want to throw him in a block of Phoenix Guard with the lore of shadow. I have no desire to bring along swordmasters or shadow warriors.
The rare choices, I think, drastically change the overall feel of the army. With a small unit of sisters and two or three bolt throwers I think I would have some hitting power against regen or tougher monstrous creatures / demon princes. I've only If I went with this option, I feel I would need to add some archers to augment the BS shooting. I would like to also have a Frostheart in there; but I'm sure I've already run out of points.
Thoughts?
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Post by Ah crap it's him on Nov 3, 2013 23:27:24 GMT -6
Life on the mounted bus sounds a bit underwhelming. It's great at boosting the resilience of a unit, keeping it alive in protracted combat, but that's not what you want to get stuck into with cav (as they should be in a flank). Now it makes a lot of sense in white lions who will actually get smacked back and want to not give up casualties that their T3 may allow.
If you are dead set on cav, run the Mage in a reaver squad behind the silver helm bus. Beast would be rockin on your cav, boosting the strength and attacks of all your characters/princes
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Post by Nick P on Nov 4, 2013 8:51:34 GMT -6
I think that the phoenix guard block with banner of the world dragon is easily one of the hardest units in the game to break; if I were you, I'd center my army list around a block of 30 ish, and then another block of white lions, again around 30 ish. Give your mage lore of life, sit him in a unit of archers/spears/lothern behind them to keep them alive.
Then fill out your core with either: chariots/silverhelms to outflank your opponent and clear chaff, a big block of seaguard to take both spearmen and archer duties, or reavers to redirect/clear chaff.
Add nobles and bolt throwers to taste, and baby you got yourself a stew goin'
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Post by Russell on Nov 4, 2013 23:05:01 GMT -6
I feel that using the banner in the Phoenix guard doesn't maximize the potential of the banners since they have a stock ward save. There's time to try out a lot of options though.
After some thought I think you're right Kyle, about the lore of life. I think I would rather have shadow, so my thought is to give an archmage the book and the talisman and throw him in a bunker of either archers of guard. Shadow fills in the weakness of thigh elves which I feel is inability to deal with high armor. So maybe I'm overcompensating with both white lions and lore of shadow.
I also briefly considered a more cavalry based approach with a block of silver helms and dragon princes, but I think it would invariably suffer the same fate as Bretonnia.
Also, high elf chariots aren't core. This ain't beastmans, friendo.
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Post by Russell on Nov 4, 2013 23:05:37 GMT -6
Ha, thigh elves. I'm not changing that.
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jackmarin
initiate
Last time I gave a shit, I got fucked!
Posts: 53 
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Post by jackmarin on Nov 5, 2013 9:28:58 GMT -6
Maybe keep the book at home? The book works best with low casting values so you can single or double dice them.
If I take my elves this is what I'm most likely taking
Archmage: Folding Fortress; Lore of Shadow.
Loremaster: Book of Hoeth.
Noble: Banner of the World Dragon; great weapon; longbow; shield; lion cloak; Battle Standard.
Noble: The Reaver Bow; Potion Of Strength.
23 Archers: Hawkeye; musician; standard bearer.
35 Spearmen: Sentinel; musician; standard bearer.
25 Phoenix Guard: Keeper of the Flame; musician; standard bearer (Razor Standard).
1 Great Eagle
1 Great Eagle
1 Great Eagle
Eagle Claw Bolt Thrower
Eagle Claw Bolt Thrower
Eagle Claw Bolt Thrower
10 Sisters of Avelorn
2,400 points
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Post by Russell on Nov 5, 2013 14:48:15 GMT -6
Wow, that's quite the list there. What would you put in the folding fortress?
As for the book, since it functions well in both players' casting phases, its an auto-include for me. All spellcasting benefits from the book, as it allows you to cast stuff with fewer dice. I do agree that lores with a lower casting value benefit greater from the book.
There's a table on ulthuan.net that has casting probabilities for the loremaster with the book of hoeth. Have you seen it?
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Post by Russell on Nov 5, 2013 16:49:00 GMT -6
Here is the topic with all the tables I was talking about.
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jackmarin
initiate
Last time I gave a shit, I got fucked!
Posts: 53
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Post by jackmarin on Nov 5, 2013 17:51:22 GMT -6
I'm going to run all the characters in the unit of archers and pop them in and out of the building. Points denial all the way.
I have seen it! Very helpful.
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Post by Russell on Nov 6, 2013 12:24:26 GMT -6
I'm also considering taking metal with my level 4, does anyone have experience with that lore?
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Post by Nick P on Nov 6, 2013 12:31:42 GMT -6
I've been on both ends of the lore of metal, and I like it; it has a few augments to really help beef up your units' armor, it has a hex to reduce your opponents armor, but all the damage spells are a)flaming b)dependant on armor saves, so basically good against monsters (if they have an armor save) and heavy armored units (ie knights and WoC).
Can be hit or miss, I sometimes take it on a lvl 2 just to try and give me a mm vs cavalry and possibly the glittering robe buff to get my troops to 1+ armor. I don't think it would be as useful on a lvl 4 though.
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jackmarin
initiate
Last time I gave a shit, I got fucked!
Posts: 53
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Post by jackmarin on Nov 6, 2013 15:57:17 GMT -6
I've seen quite a few dark elves lists with a lvl 4 metal sorceress. They seem to work pretty well. But of you're playing ogres (which of course you will be, barf) you might be SOL unless you're final transmutation'ing every turn. It would be nice to see a HE list at a tournament with metal. Not typically seen.
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Post by Russell on Nov 6, 2013 16:24:04 GMT -6
That's why I was considering life on a level 4 in a block of silvah helms with a couple tough nobles / prince in front rank, for the grinding power and dwellers if need be. Maybe I should just take a level 8 lore master metal / life instead, solves all my problems.
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Post by Nick P on Nov 6, 2013 17:56:11 GMT -6
Just take high magic and switch it out for life and metal as you see fit BURRRRRRRRRN
No but seriously, life is good for a big anvil block, but not so much for cav buses. Metal is very hit or miss. Shadow is good, death is good, high is great.
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Post by Russell on Nov 15, 2013 8:57:10 GMT -6
I really really like the High magic / book combo. It allows you to seriously produce spells in a low dice phase. My next concern is steadfast. The 2k list I used last week had a maximum of four ranks. Granted, that block would have put out 21 str 6 attacks but hey. How would anyone here deal with a big fucking fat bus with a low model count army? Nick, what's your strategy? Beside the usual 'push it forward lolwarriors', I mean.
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