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Post by Dougtrio on Oct 9, 2017 20:09:04 GMT -6
Any Adeptus Mechanicus, Imperial Knights, Imperial Agents, or Talons of the Emperor players want a near-mint version of this book for $10? Asking before I recycle this bad boy.
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Post by Nick P on Oct 11, 2017 7:10:45 GMT -6
Keep it so you have access to the units that don't exist in the codex anymore like Rough Riders
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Post by Dougtrio on Oct 11, 2017 7:43:03 GMT -6
Already sold, but yeah I wish they had GW models  |
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Post by Eric formerly Eric on Oct 11, 2017 10:38:56 GMT -6
I gotta say, I hate that you still need the index to play a surprisingly high amount of units that were cut out of the codexes. I dont care if they dont have models, its part of the hobby. I mean, biker command squads, apothecaries and biker librarians were a huge part of the meta in 7th.
Its one thing to say that those units no longer exist due to lack of models. But to allow their usage with an index and leaving them out of the codex is bs.
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Post by Nick P on Oct 11, 2017 11:06:49 GMT -6
With 8th edition, there is nothing stopping GW from making a plastic rough rider kit 6 months from now with rules in the box allowing you to play it with your codex. But since everyone bought the indexes anyways, they have at least some way of continuing to play with out of date/out of print models should they have them, and now new players aren't going to be put off when they get told to spend $75 on 3 kits to recreate a unit they saw in the codex.
If they put them in the codex everyone would be pissed they can't buy the models; if they took them out of the codex and gave you no loophole to use your old models that you may have purchased 10 years ago, people would be pissed. This is the best solution - don't get new players' hopes up, don't disenfranchise veteran players with old models, and have the flexibility to add the unit back into the army at any time with rules in the box and a bitching new plastic kit. Win win win.
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Post by Eric formerly Eric on Oct 11, 2017 15:09:23 GMT -6
With 8th edition, there is nothing stopping GW from making a plastic rough rider kit 6 months from now with rules in the box allowing you to play it with your codex. But since everyone bought the indexes anyways, they have at least some way of continuing to play with out of date/out of print models should they have them, and now new players aren't going to be put off when they get told to spend $75 on 3 kits to recreate a unit they saw in the codex. If they put them in the codex everyone would be pissed they can't buy the models; if they took them out of the codex and gave you no loophole to use your old models that you may have purchased 10 years ago, people would be pissed. This is the best solution - don't get new players' hopes up, don't disenfranchise veteran players with old models, and have the flexibility to add the unit back into the army at any time with rules in the box and a bitching new plastic kit. Win win win. Dude what are you talking about? Is converting and kitbashing suddenly not an integral part of this hobby? The "only units with models get codex entries/updates" is a bullshit rule that has only been applied by gw when they feel like it. Look at the new lieutenant in the marine codex. Or the dreadknight grandmaster. Or like half the imperial guard factions. And honor guard are still an option for all chapters even though they only make ultramarine models. And its not like there were models available in 7th ed that are suddenly not available in 8th. Bike veterans and hqs have been options for several editions now without official models. This is gw making excuses for either laziness, incompetence, or maliciousness on their part. Im personally convinced its incompetence. Look at all the errors in the indexes that made their way into the codexes. It would not have been hard to add 2 more pages to the marine book to include bikes. I shouldnt have to buy and bring an additional book to use units (or weapons options like lasplas/assault cannon razorbacks!!) that have been staples of the army for years. Honestly dude, the deeper i look at the SM codex entries, the more i realize gw left out, including a lot of weapons options. Like honor guard no longer have weapons options even though i converted them to have swords instead of axes (but marine bikers do, even though their kits dont come with any). If they continue to update/errata/faq the old options and points costs, i will be happy. But its still frustrating that i would need an index onhand in order to play half my army in a tourney. |
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Andy
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Post by Andy on Oct 11, 2017 19:54:23 GMT -6
Nick is right. The idea is to move all the rules onto the internet, aps and free in the boxes. Codexes will remain for background and for the gamers who want them but they will not be updated often enough to cover all options.
If it follows the Age of Sigmar model (it will) then all the Index units that exist that don’t have models will remain in the game but will lose their army code-words. Taking retro and unbalanced units will prevent you being battle-forged. Taking them for gaming advantage won’t be an option.
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Post by Nick P on Oct 12, 2017 5:28:35 GMT -6
Converting and kitbashing is absolutely part of the hobby - but an optional one. No player should have to take their first step into the hobby by spending 75 bucks on 3 different kits and then crossing their fingers as they chop them to pieces to create a librarian on a bike and hope they don't ruin their investment.
Like it or not GW has put a huge focus on making their games easier for new players to enter into, and not printing codex rules for models they don't make anymore is part of that.
The people that want to kitbash and use old rules are free to, but it's not a requirement in order to use whats in the codex. That's a good thing for the growth of the hobby.
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Post by Eric formerly Eric on Oct 12, 2017 7:11:26 GMT -6
Again, thats what gw is saying but thats not what they are doing.
The "change" to what is considered new-player friendly (hence making the codex) is completely arbitrary. Look at dreadnought grandmasters.
They also kept bike captains, even though they dont have models. They still allow bikers to take special weapons even though none come in the kit.
I really dont get where your $75 example is coming from, but again, the datasheets and options cut from the codex are completely arbitrary, and you arent addressing that point.
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Post by Nick P on Oct 12, 2017 7:15:37 GMT -6
Bike Captains are in the codex? I thought that was like the prime example of a model they removed, yeah if that's the case then that is super arbitrary - I wasn't aware it was so "pick and choose", which is frustrating as hell.
The $75 example is for a bike librarian - buy a box of bikes and a librarian clampack and you're sitting at $75 (well $70, looking at it now)
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Post by Eric formerly Eric on Oct 12, 2017 7:19:02 GMT -6
Nick is right. The idea is to move all the rules onto the internet, aps and free in the boxes. Codexes will remain for background and for the gamers who want them but they will not be updated often enough to cover all options. If it follows the Age of Sigmar model (it will) then all the Index units that exist that don’t have models will remain in the game but will lose their army code-words. Taking retro and unbalanced units will prevent you being battle-forged. Taking them for gaming advantage won’t be an option. Can you elaborate on what you mean the internet and apps? (Its also not "free" in the boxes when you need to buy the box to get the rules. Thats what youre buying.) Because if i dont have to buy the codex, im not going to. |
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Post by Nick P on Oct 12, 2017 7:45:25 GMT -6
I think the point is that in 7th edition a tactical squad cost $35, and you had to buy the codex for $50 to get their rules. Now the tactical squad is still $35, but you get their rules in the box - ie, free. Sure, you're still buying the box - but you are getting something you didn't used to get, for no additional cost, which is functionally free.
For people that don't want to play with points, you can literally just never buy the codex. You can just buy the boxes, take the PL and rules in the boxes, and build your army from there - done and done.
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Andy
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Post by Andy on Oct 12, 2017 11:53:13 GMT -6
The Age of Sigmar points are all available for free on their ap. The whole game is free on the Games Workshop website.
It allows them to balance the game by updating units without gamers needing to buy a new rule set.
It will take a couple of years (studio lag time is at least two, and normally three years) to pivot from the current paper system. And the paper system will always be available.
The motivation came from the lessons learned from Black Library. Print had become too expensive to make profit. Moving to digital allowed the rules for the game to be less of a financial burden. And gamers liked it because it allowed rules for over- or under-performing units to be altered on a monthly basis.
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Post by Eric formerly Eric on Oct 12, 2017 12:06:49 GMT -6
Oh yeah i totally agree with all your points. I think online updated datasheets/points is the way to go, with the books just having fluff, strategems, warlord traits, etc and being fairly light.
Im pretty excited for that (and the chapter approved updates).
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Post by Dougtrio on Oct 12, 2017 20:26:15 GMT -6
GUYS I SAID THE CODEX WAS SOLD. Stop fighting over it god damn ;]
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