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Post by Asyrean on Aug 14, 2017 9:37:59 GMT -6
Hey guys,
Wanted to ask for some general input on a quandary I came across this weekend.
Picked up the new CSM codex this weekend since I'm sitting on a small force of CSM that I never really ran in 7th. I've been interested to get these guys on the table, and to allocate them to a specific legion, but wanted the new codex to help drive that decision. So, after going through the book, I'm somewhat leaning towards the Word Bearers. I mean, what better way to counter all my Ultramarines? Well, one thing that is driving me that way is the idea of summoning, which is kinda neat and fluffy for them. However, this leads me to my question.
So, in order for a <LEGION> to take advantage of it's Legion trait, all units in the detachment must have the <LEGION> bracketed key word, and all units must be from to the same legion. Therefore, if I'm reading this correctly, even though there are Daemon troop choices in the actual CSM codex, I couldn't take these units in my detachment and get the Word Bearer Legion trait since the Daemons don't have the bracketed Legion key word. Ok, I got that part.
However, what if my Word Bearers are on the table, all units are Word Bearer units which gives me my legion trait, but then I summon some bloodletters? Would I lose my Legion trait because now I have units in my force that are not "Word Bearers"?
Anyway, I was curious about this and I spent the weekend searching the Webz for an answer. Couldn't find anything. Maybe this will be a FAQ thing, but just curious if the folks had any thoughts on here. Further, it gets weird since the Word Bearers SPECIFIC stratagem supports their summoning of Daemons... it's kinda their thing...
If anyone has any thoughts, I'd appreciate it.
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cj
neophyte
Posts: 734 
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Post by cj on Aug 14, 2017 10:06:27 GMT -6
I have not yet reviewed the book, but my thought is that if you are able to take a legion trait, subsequent action would not remove that legion trait.
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Post by Asyrean on Aug 14, 2017 10:24:18 GMT -6
I have not yet reviewed the book, but my thought is that if you are able to take a legion trait, subsequent action would not remove that legion trait. That's my thought as well, but that's also how I WANT to interpret this. As far as I've found, there's nothing RAW that supports one way or the other. I mean the question kind of comes down to this: When you summon something in game, does that summoned unit fill a slot in your detachment, or does it exist outside of your detachment? Too bad they didn't include some verbiage about Daemons in the "Dubious Allies" or whatever it's called, section. The portion where it says that Fabius Bile or Fallen can be taken in detachment slots but taking these units does NOT limit a Legion from gaining access to it's legion trait. Just these units cannot benefit from the legion trait themselves. I wish they would have said something to that effect regarding Daemons. Anyway, I've seen a little bit of chatter on the FB page of folks asking about this to GW, but as of today, no response. Seems the vast majority of folks on the FB page seem to be upset that World Eaters or Emperor's Children can no longer take Bezerkers or Noise Marines as troop choices anymore (respectively). |
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cj
neophyte
Posts: 734
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Post by cj on Aug 14, 2017 10:26:58 GMT -6
You aren't taking specific daemon choices, you are leaving a place to summon daemons, and as such they are not a part of your army list at the time you generate your legion keyword. The addition of the daemon is during gameplay, and you can't remove someone's keywords or stop their use during gameplay. If someone tries to play some RAW game twisting words about this, that person isn't worth playing with.
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Post by Asyrean on Aug 14, 2017 11:06:49 GMT -6
You aren't taking specific daemon choices, you are leaving a place to summon daemons, and as such they are not a part of your army list at the time you generate your legion keyword. The addition of the daemon is during gameplay, and you can't remove someone's keywords or stop their use during gameplay. If someone tries to play some RAW game twisting words about this, that person isn't worth playing with. I hear you and appreciate the input. That's kinda my thought on it as well. Anyway, this is encouraging. Maybe I have some Daemons in my future!  |
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Post by rogerspacem on Aug 14, 2017 12:04:12 GMT -6
Yes another daemon player! Which god were you thinking about?
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Post by Asyrean on Aug 14, 2017 12:30:41 GMT -6
Yes another daemon player! Which god were you thinking about? Well, not so much a Daemon player but a CSM player with some Daemons. In that sense, and since I'm leaning towards Word Bearers, I'd be open to Chaos Undivided mostly. But, if I got into the Daemon game and started fleshing it out, then who knows, I might choose something specific. Anyway, I'm not going to be buying anything anytime soon but when I do, I'll start off with the daemon troop options and go from there. |
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Post by Nick P on Aug 14, 2017 12:56:17 GMT -6
My understanding is that the Legion keyword matters at army construction - if you have all Word Bearers in your detachment, then you are officially a word bearer's detachment with all the rules that comes with. Summoning daemons later doesn't change that, since at the time of army construction you still had ALL word bearers. As CJ said, basically. But I'm sure GW will FAQ it as well sooner than later, just to make sure people aren't being dicks about it.
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Post by rogerspacem on Aug 14, 2017 15:12:16 GMT -6
Yes another daemon player! Which god were you thinking about? Well, not so much a Daemon player but a CSM player with some Daemons. In that sense, and since I'm leaning towards Word Bearers, I'd be open to Chaos Undivided mostly. But, if I got into the Daemon game and started fleshing it out, then who knows, I might choose something specific. Anyway, I'm not going to be buying anything anytime soon but when I do, I'll start off with the daemon troop options and go from there. OK that's what I kinda have at the moment (chaos undivided...aside my horde of tzeentch). Still not being one specific god does have its benefits, especially that your characters can summon ANY daemon which is super nice toolkit to have. |
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Post by daniel, why on Aug 15, 2017 10:02:03 GMT -6
You can also just nab a Patrol Detachment to include Daemons in your army without breaking Faction. Since the Legion Traits are Detachment specific, this will let you start with the uglies on the board if you like. They all have the Chaos faction keyword, so you're still Battle-forged. A Herald of whatever Chaos god you like and a unit of Daemons is a nice way to get a feel for them, I think.
I do recall reading summoning strategies in AoS that specifically planned on bringing in out-of-faction units. I can't remember where I read it, but I think one of the purposes of summoning is just that--to allow using units outside of your faction without breaking your Allegiance (in AoS terms). I'm pretty sure the same intent is true in 40K.
The Word Bearer summoning stratagem seems awesome, by the way, and a super fun excuse to paint up all kinds of rude Daemons!
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