Post by rogerspacem on Jul 14, 2017 12:04:06 GMT -6
Hey Everyone,
Just trying to get an opinion from Daemon Players, or anyone really, on Daemons. Back in 7th I ran mostly Tzeentch daemons, but with 8th out I'm not too sure what the "Plan" really is. Like I feel like a lot of their units get shot off the board if the player goes mono daemons. Still here is a rough list for my mono Tzeentch. Thoughts and/or experience on the units I am bringing?
++ Vanguard Detachment +1CP (Chaos - Daemons) [74 PL, 1390pts] ++
+ HQ +
Kairos Fateweaver [20 PL, 400pts]
+ Troops +
Horrors [10 PL, 235pts]: Daemonic Icon, Instrument of Chaos, 20x Pink Horror
+ Elites +
Flamers [13 PL, 196pts]: Flamer, Flamer, Flamer, Flamer, Flamer, Flamer, Pyrocaster
Flamers [13 PL, 196pts]: Flamer, Flamer, Flamer, Flamer, Flamer, Flamer, Pyrocaster
Flamers [5 PL, 84pts]: Flamer, Flamer, Pyrocaster
+ Fast Attack +
Screamers [13 PL, 279pts]: 9x Screamer
++ Supreme Command Detachment +1CP (Chaos - Daemons) [28 PL, 519pts] ++
+ HQ +
Daemon Prince of Chaos with Wings [11 PL, 180pts]: Malefic talon, Tzeentch
Herald of Tzeentch on Burning Chariot [7 PL, 135pts]: Staff of Change
Herald of Tzeentch on Disc [5 PL, 104pts]: Staff of Change
The Changeling [5 PL, 100pts]
++ Total: [102 PL, 1909pts] ++
I know the points on Battle scribe can be off, but so far it seems accurate. The list I have is only 1909 points, so that leaves 91 points in reserve (there for blues and the brims).
The Plan: Honestly, this list is to try all the different tzeentch daemons. Bubble wrap the characters, and if possible fate weaver (also out of line of sight) with pink horrors. The pink horrors will have a -1 minus to hit, +1 to str, and re-rolling "1's" to hit from the herald, changeling, and DP. T. still I'm not too certain what Fate Weaver will do, as he can't really benefit from bubble wrapping (aside from units coming from reserves). Otherwise horrors screen, and hold objectives if they chain long enough. The changeling will most likely chill with them just to make the horrors hard to kill. After turn 1, maybe turn 2, the heralds and DP are just going to fly over to nearby units (with screamers and/or flamers) and most likely try to wreck face. Having a DP with STR 8, 7 ATKs, and re-rolling "1's" isn't bad at all. The other heralds will just spam smite with their staffs, and the one on the burning chariot will come in to lend support in CC. (Does the screamers on the chariot benefit from any of the bonuses from the herald riding them, or even from the DP? I was curious. I'm going to say no, considering they are treated as weapons and not models, but wondering.) Looking at the models, I'm really considering just dropping Fateweaver, granted its a tryout list, but I feel like he doesn't really do much (at least if you put him in a horde list). He is too easy of a target. His powers can hurt, he is actually pretty beast in CC, and can move far, but not really enough to get in close to cast some of the tzeentch powers (Bolt of Change can hit, and I think another is 18" which isn't bad, but that's super positioning you got him to keep him safe and find a decent target). I see him in a list where if you got other bigger targets, like Magnus or a Blood thirster than he might be fine long enough to do the damage, otherwise I feel like he is in a game of Duck Hunt.
The other units I have but not bringing are the Burning Chariot (which I would say its a pretty good unit, but it isn't a character so it'll get shot up, unless you spam them). Soul Grinder like the Burning Chariot, but think he is too expensive as well. Chaos furies... (shrug) only got one 5-man squad. I WOULD have LOVE to bring the CHAOS KNIGHT, but his stats aren't out yet. I think his Keywords would make him a daemon, and, so a 4++ save all around (tzeentch), making him one sturdy SOB (or make him nurgle for a 5+ FNP and 5++ save). Still this is basing it off the other daemon machines in forgeworld index for chaos, which follows what I said.
I'm hoping next Wednesday I can try this out, but again I wanted to throw into the mix of things to see if someone can give me advise. It's not the most optimal list, but again I'm just trying to get a feel for daemons. I personally see the summoning mechanic neat, and super cool for narrative games, but too much of a liability (still if someone can tell me otherwise, I would be okay with trying it out in the first game instead.)
Just trying to get an opinion from Daemon Players, or anyone really, on Daemons. Back in 7th I ran mostly Tzeentch daemons, but with 8th out I'm not too sure what the "Plan" really is. Like I feel like a lot of their units get shot off the board if the player goes mono daemons. Still here is a rough list for my mono Tzeentch. Thoughts and/or experience on the units I am bringing?
++ Vanguard Detachment +1CP (Chaos - Daemons) [74 PL, 1390pts] ++
+ HQ +
Kairos Fateweaver [20 PL, 400pts]
+ Troops +
Horrors [10 PL, 235pts]: Daemonic Icon, Instrument of Chaos, 20x Pink Horror
+ Elites +
Flamers [13 PL, 196pts]: Flamer, Flamer, Flamer, Flamer, Flamer, Flamer, Pyrocaster
Flamers [13 PL, 196pts]: Flamer, Flamer, Flamer, Flamer, Flamer, Flamer, Pyrocaster
Flamers [5 PL, 84pts]: Flamer, Flamer, Pyrocaster
+ Fast Attack +
Screamers [13 PL, 279pts]: 9x Screamer
++ Supreme Command Detachment +1CP (Chaos - Daemons) [28 PL, 519pts] ++
+ HQ +
Daemon Prince of Chaos with Wings [11 PL, 180pts]: Malefic talon, Tzeentch
Herald of Tzeentch on Burning Chariot [7 PL, 135pts]: Staff of Change
Herald of Tzeentch on Disc [5 PL, 104pts]: Staff of Change
The Changeling [5 PL, 100pts]
++ Total: [102 PL, 1909pts] ++
I know the points on Battle scribe can be off, but so far it seems accurate. The list I have is only 1909 points, so that leaves 91 points in reserve (there for blues and the brims).
The Plan: Honestly, this list is to try all the different tzeentch daemons. Bubble wrap the characters, and if possible fate weaver (also out of line of sight) with pink horrors. The pink horrors will have a -1 minus to hit, +1 to str, and re-rolling "1's" to hit from the herald, changeling, and DP. T. still I'm not too certain what Fate Weaver will do, as he can't really benefit from bubble wrapping (aside from units coming from reserves). Otherwise horrors screen, and hold objectives if they chain long enough. The changeling will most likely chill with them just to make the horrors hard to kill. After turn 1, maybe turn 2, the heralds and DP are just going to fly over to nearby units (with screamers and/or flamers) and most likely try to wreck face. Having a DP with STR 8, 7 ATKs, and re-rolling "1's" isn't bad at all. The other heralds will just spam smite with their staffs, and the one on the burning chariot will come in to lend support in CC. (Does the screamers on the chariot benefit from any of the bonuses from the herald riding them, or even from the DP? I was curious. I'm going to say no, considering they are treated as weapons and not models, but wondering.) Looking at the models, I'm really considering just dropping Fateweaver, granted its a tryout list, but I feel like he doesn't really do much (at least if you put him in a horde list). He is too easy of a target. His powers can hurt, he is actually pretty beast in CC, and can move far, but not really enough to get in close to cast some of the tzeentch powers (Bolt of Change can hit, and I think another is 18" which isn't bad, but that's super positioning you got him to keep him safe and find a decent target). I see him in a list where if you got other bigger targets, like Magnus or a Blood thirster than he might be fine long enough to do the damage, otherwise I feel like he is in a game of Duck Hunt.
The other units I have but not bringing are the Burning Chariot (which I would say its a pretty good unit, but it isn't a character so it'll get shot up, unless you spam them). Soul Grinder like the Burning Chariot, but think he is too expensive as well. Chaos furies... (shrug) only got one 5-man squad. I WOULD have LOVE to bring the CHAOS KNIGHT, but his stats aren't out yet. I think his Keywords would make him a daemon, and, so a 4++ save all around (tzeentch), making him one sturdy SOB (or make him nurgle for a 5+ FNP and 5++ save). Still this is basing it off the other daemon machines in forgeworld index for chaos, which follows what I said.
I'm hoping next Wednesday I can try this out, but again I wanted to throw into the mix of things to see if someone can give me advise. It's not the most optimal list, but again I'm just trying to get a feel for daemons. I personally see the summoning mechanic neat, and super cool for narrative games, but too much of a liability (still if someone can tell me otherwise, I would be okay with trying it out in the first game instead.)