|
|
Post by Eric formerly Eric on Jul 11, 2017 9:16:12 GMT -6
How have people been using transports in 8th so far? Especially basic transports like rhinos?
On the one hand, units can move and charge out of them. On the other hand, they are way more expensive and models die much easier when their transport is destroyed.
Looking at my marines, I get using rhinos for slow CC troops (honor guard, vets) but most good cc units can move faster (bikes, vanguard) or teleport in (termis).
So is there any point in putting shooty units in rhinos/etc? How have people been using them?
|
|
|
|
Post by rogerspacem on Jul 11, 2017 9:33:15 GMT -6
I think they are actually good for determining first turn, otherwise they aren't bad. Expensive yeah, but, as marines, they tend to be more helpful. I see myself only using 1 MAYBE 2 drop pods, but no more than that. Pods help stall your deployment to see how your opponent reacts. Razorbacks are pretty boss considering you can give them twin anything and do some damage. A twin lascannon razorback is about 115 which is pretty good, or you can use the twin assault cannon for 100 or 99 for twin flamers. In short your razor backs can potentially be a fire magnet to draw fire power away from your actual heavy hitters, otherwise they deliver hard punches. Rhinos can survive more than you think, and make good overwatch eaters. Otherwise for two more points you can equip them with storm bolters which are always a good option to have.
How I use them:
Drop pod/s: (usually 1) to stall deployment, and have the unit be a suicide squad, if they can hold an objective than all the better.
Rhinos: Usually holds a couple of units at least. Never want a rhino to be half empty, unless I'm low on points.
Razorbacks: Most likely holds a 5 man tact squad or vets, with an hq model. Depending what my army needs I'll change the weapon to it. If I need to be aggressive than I'll take assault cannons, or heavy bolters (wished I have twin flamers bits).
Land Raiders:...I'm not certain. I feel like a predator would be better and a rhino. I ONLY take a land raider if I need to save space, but even then I hesitate on this choice.
L.R. Crusaders: These on the other hand are usually worth it. You just got to be careful not to get it in combat, else its unless (well you can charge it as it does have a means to deliver mortal wounds). What makes this a better option is the fact of storing 16 models, the anti-horde weaponry, and its WAY cheaper than land raider. So even it someone charges it, they have to go through 24 bolter shots and 12 assault cannons shots (if you give it a storm bolter, again just 2 points, that's an additional 4 shots).
Again this is with my models of Dark Angels. My army doesn't have storm ravens or anything like that. Still I can see their use now
|
|
|
|
Post by Asyrean on Jul 11, 2017 9:45:23 GMT -6
I echo a lot of what Roger is saying. In the games I've played so far (that would be 3...) in 8th, my Razorbacks have been stellar. Finally, they don't explode! Therefore, they can come off the line and really do their job of getting whatever they're carrying into the midfield faster and safer than if the marines were slogging it. Further, I've been having success with putting the Twin Lascannon on them as redundancy to whatever my big hitter is. That way, between the razorback's LC's and other Marine's ML's, I can put a weight of heavy fire into the opponent's big bad. Of course, overloading on LC's and MLs can get to a point of diminishing returns, and so, I'm getting very close to pulling the trigger on some FW Assault Cannon turrets. Anyway, I've found the Razorbacks do a great job of soaking up a decent amount of fire. Further (and I think Roger also said this elsewhere), the stormbolter moving to Rapid fire 2 is really a lot more helpful for mowing down those basic troops that you dont want to waste a full unit on... Anyway, Razorbacks have been treating me well so far.
As for Landraiders, these are also awesome, but a point sink. I think you really need to use a LR as YOUR big bad and beg the opponent to dump fire into it. They can weather A LOT of fire and so, you'll buy yourself a few turns (or a game?) of your opponent unloading their big guns into it while the rest of your army moves up and does it's job. So yah, LR's definitely have their place.
Lastly, however, I will say that my Stormraven has become my new all star. That thing is bonkers!
|
|
|
|
Post by rogerspacem on Jul 11, 2017 10:24:14 GMT -6
I echo a lot of what Roger is saying. In the games I've played so far (that would be 3...) in 8th, my Razorbacks have been stellar. Finally, they don't explode! Therefore, they can come off the line and really do their job of getting whatever they're carrying into the midfield faster and safer than if the marines were slogging it. Further, I've been having success with putting the Twin Lascannon on them as redundancy to whatever my big hitter is. That way, between the razorback's LC's and other Marine's ML's, I can put a weight of heavy fire into the opponent's big bad. Of course, overloading on LC's and MLs can get to a point of diminishing returns, and so, I'm getting very close to pulling the trigger on some FW Assault Cannon turrets. Anyway, I've found the Razorbacks do a great job of soaking up a decent amount of fire. Further (and I think Roger also said this elsewhere), the stormbolter moving to Rapid fire 2 is really a lot more helpful for mowing down those basic troops that you dont want to waste a full unit on... Anyway, Razorbacks have been treating me well so far. As for Landraiders, these are also awesome, but a point sink. I think you really need to use a LR as YOUR big bad and beg the opponent to dump fire into it. They can weather A LOT of fire and so, you'll buy yourself a few turns (or a game?) of your opponent unloading their big guns into it while the rest of your army moves up and does it's job. So yah, LR's definitely have their place. Lastly, however, I will say that my Stormraven has become my new all star. That thing is bonkers! Yeah Stormraven's are brutal and awesome. Kinda kicking myself in the butt selling you my stormraven, but yeah I'm glad you can get some good mileage on that bad boy. Wish DA's get that birdie, but we have dark shroud and dark talon so i think its even. But yeah Eric transports are legit. It just depends what your opponent has to counter them, and if he fires at them first well at least your other tanks won't get harassed, and your dudes inside might be fine (assuming you don't roll 1's or your rhino isn't surrounded.) |
|
|
|
Post by Eric formerly Eric on Jul 11, 2017 10:25:44 GMT -6
Yeah I have a stormraven. I only played one game so far (against an alpha strike nid army) but I was put off when the raven got destroyed by termigants...
So rhinos are still good for transporting tacticals/sternguard/etc? Can they really still not go by foot very well?
I definitely get having rhinos take overwatch.
Are people giving their shooty squads CC weapons now and having them charge after shooting?
I'm just tempted to use more jump packs and bikes for mobility rather than pay 70 for a box.
Slightly off topic, do people still like sternguard? I cant tell if they have a place anymore.
|
|
|
|
Post by Eric formerly Eric on Jul 11, 2017 10:26:38 GMT -6
Also, are you using the razorback as a transport? Cause then it's hitting on 4s and losing efficiency. I took one and just used it as a backup gun platform.
|
|
|
|
Post by Asyrean on Jul 11, 2017 10:36:36 GMT -6
Also, are you using the razorback as a transport? Cause then it's hitting on 4s and losing efficiency. I took one and just used it as a backup gun platform. Yep. I've used mine as a transport. Actually, I've been using them to transport regular old Tacticals. Basically, I've been combat squading my Tacticals. Half of the squad (with ML or Lascannon) holds shooting positions in my deployment zone, the rest (Sarge with Plasma / Chainsword or Powerfist /Chainsword and one marine with a Flamer) get in the RB and cruise up to midfield in order to get as close as possible and, ideally, hit something squishy. Obviously, Sternguard could be put in this role as well, if you wanted. Anyway, I like using my Razorbacks (I run at least 2), to get into the midfield as quickly as possible (but not advancing). Really makes the opponent consider taking them out first because they're squishy-er than whatever my big threat unit is. (i.e. Stormraven / Landraider) And sure, the RB can die easy enough, but it will still take some concentrated fire. And if they blow it up, well it's only a 100pt tank and maybe some tacticals... Either way, my big bad survived a little bit longer. I think Sternguard still have a pretty solid place, especially with their access to all those combi weapons. But frankly, I haven't used mine yet. Only thing about the SG, I am kinda sad that their special issue ammo got changed. I wont say "nerfed," just changed... so I am still uncertain how I feel about them. But, I think they are likely solid still. |
|
doubleback
novice
I rock harder than most, yet less hard than some.
Posts: 1,262 
|
Post by doubleback on Jul 11, 2017 13:18:34 GMT -6
I don't even want to hear you complaining about your razorbacks exploding in 7th.....I once lost a Trukk during deployment
That said, with the new explosion rule you are a lot less likely to suffer major losses when a transport explodes, so even if they manage to knock a Trukk out first turn (which has only happened about 30% of the time), I still have a group of boyz down field, ususally within charge distance next turn. Worst case I've made my opponent waste 2 turns of concentrated fire on about 160pts while the real threat is coming up the board like a tidal wave.
|
|
|
|
Post by Eric formerly Eric on Jul 11, 2017 13:26:23 GMT -6
Am I wrong here? I thought that when a vehicle dies, you roll a die for each model embarked and remove them on a roll of 1.
That's pretty bad for characters, terminators, honor guard, etc.
|
|
doubleback
novice
I rock harder than most, yet less hard than some.
Posts: 1,262
|
Post by doubleback on Jul 11, 2017 13:34:45 GMT -6
Not wrong, just playing the wrong army. Orks and their weak ass saves used to lose 40-60% of our troops in an explosion, only losing 16% on average is a godsend for us. Transports basically got more dangerous for better units, incredibly less dangerous for trash.
Moral of the story, stick something in that razorback that will occupy your opponent but that you don't sweat losing. Surely SM's have some cheap unit that can either put down ugly rapid fire, or do some damage on a charge.
|
|
|
|
Post by Asyrean on Jul 11, 2017 13:38:37 GMT -6
Am I wrong here? I thought that when a vehicle dies, you roll a die for each model embarked and remove them on a roll of 1. That's pretty bad for characters, terminators, honor guard, etc. Sorta right. When a transport carrying models is destroyed, first you disembark from the transport. (Actually, FIRST you roll to see if it explodes. If it does, then you figure out the mortal wounds distribution to nearby units. Per the FAQ, the embarked unit is not affected by the explosion since it's not on the table yet.) Then, after the models are disembarked from the transport, you roll 1 dice for each model that was onboard. Any roll of a 1 means that a model (your choice) is removed. So, if you had a 5 man tact squad and a librarian in a Razorback, and it pops, first you'd see if the Razorback explodes. If so, resolve this damage to any nearby units. Then, you'd disembark any models within 3" of the razorback. Then, remove the razorback. Then roll a number of dice equal to the number of models that you just set up (in this case, 6 dice). Any 1's mean a model dies, but you get to choose which model. So, you can protect those characters, special weapons, elites, etc. At least a little. But, if you have a transport pop and it's carrying ONLY characters or special units / elites, then sure, any 1's means a powerful model is slain. Anyway, it means you have a little bit of protection for your characters/elites/special weapons, etc as long as they're sharing a transport with some troopers. |
|
|
|
Post by Eric formerly Eric on Jul 11, 2017 14:19:07 GMT -6
Oh ok. That's much better. Since you can put multiple units in transports, having a 5-man tac squad accompany a character or power unit negates most of that risk.
|
|
|
|
Post by Asyrean on Jul 11, 2017 14:47:28 GMT -6
Oh ok. That's much better. Since you can put multiple units in transports, having a 5-man tac squad accompany a character or power unit negates most of that risk. You got it. |
|
