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Post by Joelercoaster on Jun 1, 2017 9:08:28 GMT -6
I need to build up some 2k lists to see what they look like... mmmmm niddlies
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Post by Eric formerly Eric on Jun 1, 2017 9:19:49 GMT -6
I've been itching to do a test run with my nids. It's essentially confirmed that 2000 is the new 1500, right? I think people online complaining about points increases might not realize that ie. Reddit.
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Post by Russell on Jun 1, 2017 9:25:09 GMT -6
Nick, how does the model count of your new 2k lists compare to 7th edition 1500 or 1850 point lists?
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Post by Nick P on Jun 1, 2017 10:32:07 GMT -6
Dark Eldar feel small, Necrons feel small, but Tyranids feel right at 2000. My 2000 point Nids list:
Flying hive tyrant, 2x deathspitters Swarmlord Tervigon
3 hive guard
30 termagants 30 hormagants 5 warriors
toxicrene trygon prime exocrine
But my dark eldar and necron lists feel like a 1250 or 1500 point list at 2000 points, thanks to transports being so expensive. But I bet it ends up being balanced, using the eye test.
EDIT: My sample 2000 point Dark Eldar list actually is starting to feel a bit more robust, rather than small:
Succubus - archite glaive, blast pistol Drazhar Farseer Skyrunner - singing spear, shuriken pistol
8 Incubi 5 Trueborn - 4 blasters
5 Warriors - blaster 5 Warriors - blaster 5 Warriors - blaster 3 windriders - 3x scatter lasers
Venom - 2x splinter cannons Venom - 2x splinter cannons Venom - 2x splinter cannons Raider - dark lance
Ravager - 3 dark lances
Wraithknight - 2 heavy wraithcannons, 2 scatter lasers
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Post by Eric formerly Eric on Jun 1, 2017 10:34:13 GMT -6
Just from what Ive seen, it looks like lots of infantry and some characters are cheaper, but vehicles and monsters are much for expensive. For instance, genestealers are 12 each, tactical marines are 13 each, but a rhino is 70 and a haruspex is a hilarious 300.
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Post by Joelercoaster on Jun 1, 2017 11:24:21 GMT -6
I thought I saw Stealers at 10? Maybe a grainy photo.
But I agree - for Nids the mid-bugs got a fair decrease overall, with monsters getting in some cases big increases, in others about the same (I don't think a Tyrant is going to clock toooo differently? Correct me if I'm wrong though). And so much stuff is just better.
I will say I wish boneswords on MC's had the same AP as scytals, only because I want it to be the iconic weapon of Tyrants xD. But Talons are giving great bonuses, so that's awesome too.
Probably starting to build a list soon, gotta do something to ignore work xD
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Post by Eric formerly Eric on Jun 1, 2017 11:41:40 GMT -6
Genestealer are 10 base but Rending Claws are 2.
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Post by Eric formerly Eric on Jun 1, 2017 11:42:46 GMT -6
Yeah, I love how great the scytals are, but it's definitely funny that they are so much better than boneswords.
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Post by Joelercoaster on Jun 1, 2017 11:49:47 GMT -6
At least a single pair of Swords gives you a flat bonus attack, but I think Scytals are going to be really popular between the re-roll's and having the best AP of MC weapons. For mid-line bugs I think it's actually a nice spread, each with some legit value.
Also, can't believe you have to buy Claws for Stealers xD. But 12 points for what they have now seems great - will have to throw them down (with a broodlord, of course) a time or two and see how things go.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jun 1, 2017 15:09:58 GMT -6
I guess? I'd still like to play some last games of seventh (I will very much miss my rending templates). And I can only just barely reach 2,000 points with my Sisters, with a list I'm not super excited about. I'm more excited about playing a 500 point game where that one act of faith per turn is going to be awesome compared to the one act of faith per turn in 2,000 points. I imagine you'll need to come into possession of a few dozen imagifiers. Genestealer are 10 base but Rending Claws are 2. Oh interesting, Genestealers are 18 ppm in the Cult Codex. Maybe because of Cult Ambush and all of the supporting character options. Nick, how does the model count of your new 2k lists compare to 7th edition 1500 or 1850 point lists? My GSC list is pretty comparable. Metamorphs went way up in points, so I just dropped them completely in favor of more acolytes. It has a much higher model count than before, but has fewer squads as I needed to make sure I could put the better half into reserves/ambush. Here my example list: Bridage Detachment AlphaPatriarch [Familiar, Mass Hypnosis] Acolyte Iconward Genestealers [x10 Stealers] Acolytes [x20 Acolytes, Icon] Acolytes [x20 Acolytes, Icon] Acolytes [x20 Acolytes, Icon] Brigade Detachment BetaMagus [Familiar, Might from Beyond] Primus Neophytes [x10 neophytes, x2 Grenade Launchers] Neophytes [x10 neophytes, x2 Grenade Launchers] Neophytes [x10 neophytes, x2 Flamers] Neophytes [x10 neophytes, x2 Flamers] Neophytes [x10 neophytes] Neophytes [x10 neophytes] Leman Russ [Autocannon, x2 Multi-Meltas, Lascannon] Leman Russ [Autocannon, x2 Multi-Meltas, Lascannon]
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Post by Eric formerly Eric on Jun 1, 2017 15:23:04 GMT -6
Yeah idk. I don't feel like cult ambush is great in this edition. Since deep strike doesn't scatter, 4/6 ambush options are at best equal to deep strike. But 4 and 5 are worse than the 7th ed table because they keep you out of flamer distance. All in all, I'm not too happy with the results for the cult. Also abberants still seem over costed.
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Post by Eric formerly Eric on Jun 1, 2017 15:24:13 GMT -6
Also, the Metamorphs don't get the +2 strength to their Rending Claws, right? They have to choose which weapon to use.
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jesse
neophyte
Posts: 732
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Post by jesse on Jun 1, 2017 15:45:36 GMT -6
I'll need a dozen Imagifiers and two or three more Canonesses to open up extra detachments. Taking away priests as HQ units hurt on the force org front as now there are just two special characters and the Canoness for HQ slots. A battalion will just be three Canonesses, hanging out.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 1, 2017 15:51:07 GMT -6
Yeah idk. I don't feel like cult ambush is great in this edition. Since deep strike doesn't scatter, 4/6 ambush options are at best equal to deep strike. But 4 and 5 are worse than the 7th ed table because they keep you out of flamer distance. All in all, I'm not too happy with the results for the cult. Also abberants still seem over costed. IMO, the cult table got WAY worse for option #1, as your opponent can really screw you over. Options 3-6 are better though I think because you can charge no matter what now. I just think you'll only put units that want to assault into Ambush, and leave anything with decent guns on the table. In my example list all of the neophytes start on the table, but the acolytes and characters ambush. Its very easy for that list to connect with a couple of units charging on turn 1, and, because you pop out of reserves you don't suffer a full round of being shot by your opponent more. GSC will play very similar to other Alpha Strike lists now, you'll pop out, buff the things that could land a charge, and then shred the target. Here is a quick break down of the units as I see them: Patriarch - Still a powerful Character Assassin, but he's more powerful then before. With a decent round of rolling in combat he can dish out 9-18 Wounds, which fells most HQs and MCs. Magus - Nothing really new here; the potential damage of smite is nice. Primus - Now the only way to mitigate the randomness of Cult Ambush. +1 to hit for nearby units is really strong and makes him an auto-take. Acolyte Iconward - Practically identical to 7th edition; nice bonus of being able to chuck a grenade for some shooting power. Acolyte Hybrids - Acolytes are still great, even with the points hike, but I think heavy weapons are harder to justify bringing. Big bonus vs. other horde armies in the form of the cultist knife. Neophyte Hybrids - More or less identical to their 7th edition version. Shotguns did get a noticeable boost. Goliath Truck - Way more durable then the frail AV 11 chassis of 7th and you can put stealers in it now. Chimera - Still a durable and reliable transport, but much faster. Scout & Armored Sentinels - These guys may get the "most improved" vote; but I think there damage is still lacking. Much more survivable. Rockgrinder - This truck is really great in combat now; armed with the flamer its a Great unit to charge towards the enemy an force them to fire at it. Leman Russ - All around still the same extremely durable gun platform as before. More survivable, but, you'll see its usefulness diminish as it takes hits. Might be better to take neophytes with heavy weapons instead as their BS doesn't drop from casualties. Metamorphs - I'm not sure why you'd take these anymore. As an elite choice they are 18ppm and have to compete with Genestealers; who are just better IMO. Metamorphs weapons lost "rending" are are just generic multi-use weapons now. No special rules to make them more worthwhile then other units. Aberrants - Still the weakest unit in the army IMO. Barely more durable then in 7th; but more points. The hammer is less acurate now, and you have less attacks. Could be strong with a bunch of support from the Characters, but I think its better to leave them at home. Purestrain Genestealers - Amazing; arguably the best unit to Cult Ambush with as they can Advance and charge. 5++ and a bucket load of rending attacks. Still a great pick. I'll need a dozen Imagifiers and two or three more Canonesses to open up extra detachments. Taking away priests as HQ units hurt on the force org front as now there are just two special characters and the Canoness for HQ slots. A battalion will just be three Canonesses, hanging out. Celestine seems far more balanced this time around; but she also seems like a pretty solid pick for Sisters. The free +1 act of faith each turn seems worth it alone.
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Post by Eric formerly Eric on Jun 1, 2017 16:20:07 GMT -6
This makes me sad. Metamorphs were glorious, and since the codex just came out, I don't see it being updated anytime soon. Abberants stay on the shelf too.
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