mike
Butts
Posts: 628
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Post by mike on May 17, 2017 13:33:21 GMT -6
I'm really glad that wyches will function as a control piece. I hope it works.
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Post by daniel, why on May 17, 2017 14:42:06 GMT -6
I love that wyches can prevent enemy units from escaping - and with pistols, they'll be able to not only shoot before charging but also shoot in combat as well, doing a lot of damage once they get there. My 20 wyches will very likely get some paint in the new edition. I like how the new pistol rules provide a reason for them to be equipped on dedicated close combat units. And yeah, it totally seems like a squad of Wyches can come screaming out of a transport, pistols blazing, and then charge into a unit. On a related note, I disliked how there was a real fear of shooting your opponent out of charge range for your assault dudes, but I think the Movement + Advancing thing gives you a solid trade-off in closing the gap. It doesn't sound like Advancing prevents a Charge from being declared that phase, just no shooting. So you can Movement+D6 your Wyches to setup for a Charge, giving up your pistol shots, but then shoot 'em in the face in the following turn if you were able to lock them up with the roll-off. Woo! Save
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 17, 2017 14:53:29 GMT -6
Do wyches have any half-way decent pistol options?
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Post by Joelercoaster on May 17, 2017 15:02:35 GMT -6
I really hope they just get rid of the idea that DE wound on a 4+. For so long it's been 4+ to wound "guys" with poison, or 4+ (or occasionally better) to hurt a vehicle/armored thing.
Honestly? I've found it really boring. The lack of variety in weaponry has just been a huge drag. There are some really cool options, but they're so incredibly restricted that you either barely see anything outside of "lance or poison", or you have to spam unit X to have any variety.. and that kind of defeats the purpose on its own.
Basically what I'm saying, is that I'd love it if warriors had a choice between blasters, heat lances, haywire blasters, etc... instead of just blasters.
Okay, they can take shredders, but no one is ever counting those. So let's make them worthwhile while we're here xD
EDIT -
to answer Will - I'm pretty sure the only pistol DE have is the blast pistol. Again, marking a pretty sad armory...
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Post by Nick P on May 17, 2017 15:14:08 GMT -6
I'm not saying that I want infiltrate necessarily, just some way to continue to use a pod-centric list. Its just frustrating that one of the most common army builds (that used regular troops and dedicated transports), is seemingly illegal. I totally get it from a balance standpoint, and I also hate playing against a null deploy army. So this was just an idea of how an all-pod army would work with the anti-null deploy rule. Personally, it doesn't effect me cause I only have 1 pod. And I look forward to buying cheap used drop pods on ebay. I'm also remembering that the example detachments listed 1 DT for every 2 units, so I'm sure lots of other armies will have leftover transports in the closet. But again, a pod centric list is still super viable and doable - at 2000 points (the standard for the new edition according to WHTV) you can take a ton of models and units - and HALF of them can still take their pods. You can still very easily be bringing 4-5 pod lists, you just also have to have 4-5 non pod units on the board to start. So your 5 man tac squads, scouts, thunderfire cannons, speeders, bikes, etc. Then drop in your sternguard and primaris marines in pods, dreadnoughts, etc etc. and go to town. The detachments didn't say 1 DT for every 2 units, the 3 they showed us said that you can take a DT for each other choice you make - so any unit that can take a DT can take one, they just don't want you taking an empty DT as a troop choice etc to game the system.
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Post by Nick P on May 17, 2017 15:16:49 GMT -6
Do wyches have any half-way decent pistol options? They all come with splinter pistols stock, and the hekatrix can take a blast pistol, which could be useful now since she can fire it at a different target than the rest of her unit - or fire into combat to almost guarantee the death of *something* as it takes D6 wounds at -4 AP.
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Post by Nick P on May 17, 2017 15:18:42 GMT -6
I really hope they just get rid of the idea that DE wound on a 4+. For so long it's been 4+ to wound "guys" with poison, or 4+ (or occasionally better) to hurt a vehicle/armored thing. Honestly? I've found it really boring. The lack of variety in weaponry has just been a huge drag. There are some really cool options, but they're so incredibly restricted that you either barely see anything outside of "lance or poison", or you have to spam unit X to have any variety.. and that kind of defeats the purpose on its own. Basically what I'm saying, is that I'd love it if warriors had a choice between blasters, heat lances, haywire blasters, etc... instead of just blasters. Okay, they can take shredders, but no one is ever counting those. So let's make them worthwhile while we're here xD EDIT - to answer Will - I'm pretty sure the only pistol DE have is the blast pistol. Again, marking a pretty sad armory... If shredders get D6 shots and act the same as warp spider weapons I'm in, otherwise I'll stick with my current set up and basically just count on the rest of the meta changing to make them competitive. I mean overall DE play the way you'd expect them to, and have good options, its just the rest of the game got out of hand and made them non-competitive; but there's a reason they were a good option in 5th edition, before everything bloated.
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Post by Joelercoaster on May 17, 2017 15:43:38 GMT -6
Didn't mean to say the poison was never a good option - just ask Iyanden xD
It's just a personal quirk that I've started to find the options limiting. Allowing Venoms to be armed with something heavier than a Splinter Cannon, for example, will be great.
Compare the options a Kabalite squad has to Tac Marines, you know? Missiles, plasma, Las, Melta... and we can take a Blaster. Or a long-ranged Blaster. It just got really 'samey' to me.
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mike
Butts
Posts: 628
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Post by mike on May 17, 2017 16:55:03 GMT -6
I really hope they just get rid of the idea that DE wound on a 4+. For so long it's been 4+ to wound "guys" with poison, or 4+ (or occasionally better) to hurt a vehicle/armored thing. Honestly? I've found it really boring. The deldar armory is my favorite. It's so elegant. They only need two guns to destroy any unit in the game. Bliss.
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mike
Butts
Posts: 628
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Post by mike on May 17, 2017 17:10:07 GMT -6
We have a pistol that can murder anything in the game and another that will murder anything.
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Post by Deleted on May 17, 2017 17:10:43 GMT -6
I'm really curious to see what Special Ammo on sternguard and deathwatch does now. Feels like it will be even more flexible then it was before with the Str and AV changes.
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Post by Nick P on May 18, 2017 7:05:28 GMT -6
Joel I don't think that article was pointing to venoms taking other weapons - for that you still need to rock corsairs, where your venoms can take scatter lasers and shuriken cannons, dark lances...its a thing of absolute beauty.
I still think GW is sticking with the "whats in the box is whats on the rules sheet" mentality - ie, kabs still only get blaster/dark lance/splinter cannon/shredder, and venoms still get splinter cannon/splinter rifle; though I would love to see haywire and heat lances make their way to kab squads, I just don't see it.
Its also why I doubt we'll ever get an archon on reaver jetbike option - they just won't make the model for it. But they should. They fucking super should.
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Post by Joelercoaster on May 18, 2017 7:15:06 GMT -6
Fair point - it may have been an awkward break in the article. Paragraph talking about venoms, and then the next is talking about "these vehicles" taking heavier weapons like lances and dissies... but now that I look again, there's a picture of Raiders between, so you're probably right.
At least, even allowing with that layout, it seems Raiders do have the ability to get a 5++ vs shooting. So that's a thing.
Yeah, I think it's time to just focus on the Corsairs... hopefully FW won't be far behind on dropping rules for its own full factions.
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Post by Nick P on May 18, 2017 7:58:32 GMT -6
FW said they are currently working to update all the imperial armor stuff for 8th, so that should be something that comes out sooner than later I would think. They did say it would be much much longer to get everything for horus heresy updated, so that part seems to be on the back burner for now at least.
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Post by Deleted on May 18, 2017 8:02:32 GMT -6
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