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Post by Dan K on May 8, 2014 22:25:27 GMT -6
I NEED MORE RIPTIDES! Whoa, you mean you don't look forward to playing vs 8 riptides?  ? |
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Post by Matt W. on May 8, 2014 23:15:42 GMT -6
I NEED MORE RIPTIDES! Whoa, you mean you don't look forward to playing vs 8 riptides? ? And less friends. |
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Post by Deleted on May 11, 2014 8:16:35 GMT -6
Allegedly, Unbound armies may not contest objectives, if that holds to be true I think the you won't see many competitive unbound forces.
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Post by Joelercoaster on May 11, 2014 12:33:38 GMT -6
Allegedly is highly accurate. I believe I've seen the same rumor dump that you have, and it just stinks of awkwardness, mostly. At this point, there are a bunch of conflicting "hot sources" that I'm underwhelmed by anything out there right now. Aside from what we've seen from the WD, I'm not getting my hopes up about anything.
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Post by Nick P on May 12, 2014 8:38:44 GMT -6
New video up by GW - Jervis talks about the 3 ways that armies can be taken in the new edition, from standard FOC (and the benefits that you get for taking such an army) to Unbound lists and finally formations like we've seen with dataslates etc. www.youtube.com/watch?v=7JnMByJVUow#t=10 |
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Post by Ah crap it's him on May 12, 2014 13:39:41 GMT -6
That does sound... Interesting? I'll have to try and pause it to read those orginization rules
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Post by Nick P on May 12, 2014 14:10:15 GMT -6
The orginization rules are up on Faeit 212 - here's the skivvy: Battle-Forged lists use the normal FOC we all know and love, with the option for 1 Allied attachment (same FOC for them as well), and up to 1 fortification and 1 Lord of War. You also get the following bonuses: - Your warlord can choose to re-roll his warlord trait for the game
- All of your scoring units have the "objective secured" special rule, meaning they can hold objectives even if enemies are within 3"
Unbound lists are exactly that - whatever you want to bring to the table; however the disclaimer is there that this needs to be cleared with your opponent first, and they need to approve your list; basically setting the tone that Unbound lists should primarily be used for fun one-off games or campaigns, and shouldn't be expected to be the norm. The pics also show that dedicated transports count as being a unit of whatever Force Org type they're transporting. A rhino carrying tac marines is counted as a Troops unit, and acts as such (doesn't take FOC though). A rhino carrying stern-guard counts as Elites, etc. A transport that is in its own FOC (ie stormravens, landraiders, etc) count as that FOC slot. Formations can be taken as part of an unbound list or on their own, and they get any special rules granted by that formation type and otherwise act as they would if they were a normal unit from that faction's codex. So you can take formations on their own as stand alone armies, if you so choose (yay skyblight). Basically, my thoughts on this are - awesome. Unbound lists read like mini-apoc armies, and aren't going to be the norm that we play against (especially in the competitive scene, if we ever decide to do that more). The bonuses to normal lists are killer, with warlord traits falling definitively into two buckets - useful and terrible. Preventing opponents from denying your objectives is amazing, and really puts the pressure on people to play Battle-Forged lists rather than "two revenants and a skyshield". The rules also seem to indicate that troop transports count as scoring units - so rhinos, raiders, serpents, etc all can score and deny assuming they were purchased for troop choices. My guess is that they will have to be carrying troops to actually score/deny, as per 5th edition, but maybe not. Time will tell. I also read a pretty solid rumor from a typically reliable source about the psychic phase. Put simply, it works like this: - Roll D6, add your Mastery Level. This is how many dice you get to cast, your opponent gets the same D6 but adds his mastery level. These are his Deny the Witch dice.
- For each warp charge a spell uses, you need to roll a 4+ on a single D6. So if a spell has warp charge 2 - you need to roll at least 2 4+'s in order for it to go off...the more dice you throw, the better your chances.
- Your opponent can deny the witch by throwing dice, needing to get 1 or more 6s in order to deny the witch. The more he throws, the higher his chances of denying the witch.
- Mastery Level makes it easier to deny the witch, by reducing the dice by 1 for each. So ML 2 = only need a 4+ to deny, same as now.
- Limit on number of dice you can use - 6 to cast, 6 to deny.
- If caster fails to meet the 4+ requirements, he can't cast any more that phase (broken concentration via Fantasy, essentially)
- Adamantium Will will add +1 to Deny the Witch rolls
That seems pretty balanced to me, and doesn't require a huge overhaul of special rules to make work. Adamantium Will obviously changes, but most things that add 1 or subtract 1 from a casting or denial roll will likely still do the same - making it easier or more difficult to cast/deny as usual.
The book is supposed to go up for pre-order this weekend, so I'm sure this week will be rife with rumors and screen caps from stores who got them early or whatever.
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Post by Deleted on May 12, 2014 17:15:01 GMT -6
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Post by Joelercoaster on May 12, 2014 20:47:43 GMT -6
Interesting... I don't think it would be a bad system... I'm intrigued by the new method of resource conservation. I'm a bit confused, though, at what point you roll the d6, and how this is supposed to work
Originally it was thought that you rolled at the beginning of the phase, adding your total Psyker level. This last rumor seems to read that you roll per psyker, in essence activating them individually.
So does each targeted unit get a d6+lvl to deny? Granted, you need a 6, but suddenly the enemy went from having 1 die to a d6 to roll it. Unless perhaps each Deny negates one success from the caster, rather than ignoring the power outright?
At least blessings still seem safe to cast... Yay Dominion and Catalyst.
It makes me sad that Ld isn't used at all... Shadows, unless it's changed, will be relegated to an "oh, it did something this game" oddity.
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Post by Nick P on May 12, 2014 21:52:46 GMT -6
Joel it works like this (according to most reliable rumor set):
- you have 2 hive tyrants and a tervigon, so 5 MLs total. To see how many psychic dice you get, each phase you roll a D6 and add 5. For this turn you role a 4, so have 9 dice total.
- I have a Farseer and 2 warlocks - also 5 MLs total. I roll my D6 and roll a measly 2, so only have 7 dice to deny with.
- you attempt to cast catalyst with your tyrant. Since it's warp charge one, you only need a single 4+, so you throw 2 dice. You get a 3 and 5, so it goes off.
- I decide I really hate FNP on your tyrant, so I throw 3 dice to deny. I roll a 2, 3, and 5. Normally, not enough to prevent...however I have ML 3, so I only need a 3 to deny. Catalyst fails.
- you now have 7 dice remaining to my 4. You continue casting powers in this manner till all powers are used, all dice are used, or each psyker fails it's test.
- NOTE: failing a psychic test doesn't mean being denied...it means you through your dice to cast, and didn't get enough 4+'s. Thus your psyker would be done casting that phase, as his access to the warp energies temporarily slips from his grasp.
Make more sense? I'm betting shadows gets it's own USR and makes the psyker roll 5s or 6s to cast instead of 4s.
Or, you know, the whole thing could be bull and the system remains the same lol
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Post by Joelercoaster on May 13, 2014 6:42:46 GMT -6
So rather than the targeted unit trying to deny, it would be the psykers going head to head... so you always get your most powerful ML to deny, and ML of whatever you're using to cast?
I'd be relatively fine with this, again, I'd just like to see Ld included somehow for Shadows purposes, or an Errata to how it works. It's such an iconic ability, I'd hate to see it become just another worthless waste of ink.
But, you know, Nids.
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Post by Nick P on May 13, 2014 7:48:43 GMT -6
Haha dude I feel you - my game last night against Chris wouldn't have gone NEARLY as well as it did if these psychic rules had been included!
And to answer your question, yes, under these rumored rules the denier would always use their highest ML caster, while the caster has to use the ML of his individual model. Similar to fantasy - you cast a spell with a specific wizard, while I get to dispell with my most powerful.
To be fair, psychic powers have gotten much more powerful in this edition of the game, and nearly ALWAYS casting your spells on a LD10 is tantamount to just...getting them for free all the time basically. This way at least there is strategy involved, and, if I dare speak to GW's intelligence, making 40k more similar to fantasy might see more of the 40k players overlapping...thereby increasing profits in their flagship game.
Or, you know, they're letting chimps write the rules and seeing what sticks.
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Post by jefferestinpeace on May 13, 2014 8:08:12 GMT -6
Do we know for sure about the new DtW system? Eldrad or Ahriman or Fateweaver are super auto-includes at that point, if they start denying on a 2+. I do hope there's a bit more elegant of a system with that.
And honestly, I don't see Shadows getting changed. Maybe I'm pessimistic, but I can see GW saying "Well, it still does something" and moving on. The way it functions also only adds more bullshit to the tire-fire of the Tyranid dex; it wasn't written for 7th. If they do change it, I'll be happily surprised that they put the consideration forward. Personally, I think it'll be my barometer for how much thought they put into this whole thing.
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Post by Nick P on May 13, 2014 8:17:44 GMT -6
Hey, for all we know, the psychic phase becoming a thing only means that psychic powers, exactly as they are, move to their own phase and still rely on LD tests to get powers off. I can see a boost to denying, simply bc certain power builds are all about casting powerful spells like prescience etc, but if its still based off LD that would solve a lot of issues that people are foreseeing in the system as a whole. We'll know in about a week, once preorders start coming in!
I plan on ordering a copy right away, so hopefully it'll arrive mid week next week, at which point I will be sharing all of the lovely information with you all.
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Post by jefferestinpeace on May 13, 2014 15:39:41 GMT -6
Lots of stuff spilling out from Dakka, but this is my god damned favorite:  |
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Whoa, you mean you don't look forward to playing vs 8 riptides?
