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Post by 1D3chan on Mar 4, 2017 11:40:03 GMT -6
I know you guys are super stoked on the new Swarmlord Emperor so come here to discuss all!
Points: 350
WS9 BS6 S6 T6 W6 I6 A6 Ld10 Sv2+ (Type: Monstrous Creature (Character)
Special Rules:
Adamantium Will
Chapter Tactics (Ultramarines)
Eternal Warrior
Fearless
Feel no Pain
Fleet
Precision Shots/Strikes
Preferred Enemy (Chaos)
Lord Commander of the Imperium: All friendly Armies of the Imperium units in your army re-roll failed morale/pinning/fear
Primarch of the 13th Legion: Extra set of Doctrines (I think, I don't fully understand this one)
Unyielding Will: His leadership can never be decreased by anything at anytime
Warlord Trait: He gets all 6 Command Traits out of the BRB (basically meaning he buffs the shit out of everything within 12" of him)
Wargear:
Emperor's Sword / Hand of Dominion:
Sword: S10 AP1 Armourbane, Concussive, Soul Blaze, Might of the Emperor (which means rolls of 6's to hit are resolved at strength D instead of strength 10)
Gun: 24" S6 AP2 Assault 3
EDIT: Oh yeah, you can also choose to forfeit your normal 6 attacks to do 1 Attack per model that's within 1" of him, I think it basically allows you to hit multiple enemy units when he's surrounded.
Armour of Fate:
2+ Save, 3++ Invul and you place a marker when he is slain: on your next turn, you roll a D6 and on a 4+, he's put back on the table at the marker with D3 wounds
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Post by Eric formerly Eric on Mar 4, 2017 13:13:26 GMT -6
Holy fuck
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Post by Eric formerly Eric on Mar 4, 2017 13:17:53 GMT -6
65 more points than a swarmlord. My inner-tyranid is jealous. The only downside is being an MC without flying. Does he have to footslog?
The doctrines are an ultramarines thing. Basically rerolling hits in shooting/assault/both. We already get 6 of em in the gladius but this is great for a CAD.
But I'm not crazy, he is ridiculously undercosted right? The resurrection is super random but he should cost more than 350 even without it. I guess that's one way to sell a shitty looking model.
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Post by Eric formerly Eric on Mar 4, 2017 13:19:15 GMT -6
I really feel bad for chaos players. Magnus is nearly double the points.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Mar 4, 2017 13:34:49 GMT -6
I really feel bad for chaos players. Magnus is nearly double the points. Magnus is nearly x3 as powerful though. Magnus is a ML 5 psyker capable of D shot'ing things without line of sight and he can fly. All-in-all Guiliman is weaker out of the two significantly. He does provide a ton of support power to UM gunline though, allowing another use of the Dev Doctrine and giving re-roll 1's to hit for anything within 12" when shooting. His lack of mobility is a pain, but you could always just use a Librarius with Fulmination or Geomancy to move him forward. |
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Post by Eric formerly Eric on Mar 4, 2017 17:15:39 GMT -6
I really feel bad for chaos players. Magnus is nearly double the points. Magnus is nearly x3 as powerful though. Magnus is a ML 5 psyker capable of D shot'ing things without line of sight and he can fly. All-in-all Guiliman is weaker out of the two significantly. He does provide a ton of support power to UM gunline though, allowing another use of the Dev Doctrine and giving re-roll 1's to hit for anything within 12" when shooting. His lack of mobility is a pain, but you could always just use a Librarius with Fulmination or Geomancy to move him forward. I guess invisible/flying magnus is hard to take down. Although he's not as hard to wound once you hit him. I definitely agree on the mobility issue. It's the same problem the Swarmlord has (although the Swarmlord has like 10 other problems). I just feel like the army wide buffs are great and is there a better combat unit in the game? 8 s10 ap1 attacks at i6 ws9 rerolling 1s (possibly with some d thrown in) is incredible. Maybe there's a character I'm not thinking of whos better in a challenge Edit: definitely not complaining. He's gonna be in my army |
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Post by 1D3chan on Mar 4, 2017 23:37:05 GMT -6
He's very good and that is highlighted by the fact that he doesn't cost half an army in points like Magnus does. He is just a reasonable investment in points and can be added easily to any army at 1500pts or up. But he is not the gigantic immediate monstrous threat that Magnus is immediately.
As mentioned, and I agree, his biggest downside is that since he is a MC and can be targeted normally, he cannot join a unit/hide in a unit on his way to the fray - he cannot get in a drop pod or transport - and yes, he only moves 6".
However, the rumour mill has it on good authority that one of the Formations in FoC GS III is an Ultramarine Formation where any unit within 3" of him can take Look Out Sir rolls for him, which changes his defensive effectiveness immeasurably in my opinion. It does force your hand in terms of the way your army plays and moves, and hopefully it's a formation with a lot of varied types of units (I heard it's very large and expensive in points, it might be their Detachment). But I think this ensures he gets into combat and there, he's a mini deathstar on his own.
But if he's able to singled out and shot otherwise, that is his biggest weakness at T6. A 3++ and a 5+++ FnP is something close to a 2++ Invul (I think) so it will take a lot of firepower. But I would argue he's in a pretty decent point range, I could have seen him at 400 points with these rules and wargear.
At the end of the day, to me, he is just another Death-Star, but with less attacks. He will destroy whatever he gets into combat with or get stuck there for a while. The huge bonus is the massive *automatic* buffing he does to your army at the same time. It's kind of like a toned down but more reliable good support psyker.
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Post by Eric formerly Eric on Mar 5, 2017 0:10:11 GMT -6
Yeah, you're right. He's a 1-man deathstar that is forced to footslog. So with that in mind, his effectiveness is fairly low. I guess I didn't think of that immediately since my eyes jumped to the statline first. He still definitely helps me as an ultramarines gunline player. Though since a typical marine army is starting everyone in transports, it's gonna be odd to see him footslogging.
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Post by mcsardo on Mar 5, 2017 16:22:32 GMT -6
I think he would wreck shit in a game, but would just get maneuvered by the more competitive lists. Not having the ablative wounds of a squad, and no transport capacity will really hinder him. Though I wouldn't want to get close to 6 attacks with a D-Sword....
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Post by Nick P on Mar 5, 2017 17:38:08 GMT -6
He's a board control and army buff unit through and through. You stick him in the middle of your line and let him make everyone better, while guaranteeing your opponent stays 18" away from him.
If someone said hey pay 350 to give all his bonuses, there would be a lot of people signing up. The fact he's also a huge combat deterrent is icing on the cake!
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Post by Eric formerly Eric on Mar 5, 2017 22:33:50 GMT -6
Yeah I'm sure people were expecting him to be an IC but like 500 points (I was at least).
It works for me cause I run a gunline marine army
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Post by 1D3chan on Mar 5, 2017 23:11:28 GMT -6
So the formation that allows Ultramarines units in the formation within 3" of RG to take Look Out Sirs for him (or for him to take the tests onto them, whatever) is called the "Victrix Guard"
Captain Sicarius
1 Unit of Honour Guard
4 Units of Stern Guard or Vanguard Veterans
They also all get +1 WS and +1 BS
So that's the first time a Monstrous Creature can get a Look Out Sir thing going for it. But what's interesting is that since he's only a Character and not an IC, the rolls are on a 4+. Still good, but that's a lot of points.
I do think that the whole Character not-in-unit thing is the most reflective 40k / Age of Sigmar aspect yet though.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 5, 2017 23:28:17 GMT -6
Shesh, that formation is 940pts without any upgrades.
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Post by Eric formerly Eric on Mar 5, 2017 23:56:24 GMT -6
And Sicarius isn't good.
But sweet. I actually have the models to run that.
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