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Post by Eric formerly Eric on Jan 19, 2017 12:12:20 GMT -6
I'm probably gonna bring marines to the tourney, but I tested out a Nids/Cult list against Nick yesterday. It did alright, but my acolytes didn't have enough firepower to deal with the uncertainty of cult ambush. So here is my revised list, which gives some dynamite to those squads.
CAD: GSC HQ: Patriarch, ml1, warlord, biomancy -90 Magus, ML2, the Crouchling, broodmind powers - 85
Elite: Genestealers x5 - 70
Troops: Acolytes x5, 1 demolition charge - 60 Acolytes x5, 1 demo charge -60 Acolytes x5, 2 hand flamers - 50 Neophytes x10, 2 flamers - 60 Neophytes x10, 2 grenade launchers - 60
TYRANID ALLIED DETACHMENT HQ: Flyrant w 2 TLBLWD -230
Elite: Zoanthrope- 50
Troop Mucolid spore - 15
HS: Exocrine - 170
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Post by Nick P on Jan 19, 2017 12:27:40 GMT -6
I think the biggest problem is that the cult ambush table is so inconsistent. The bonuses from the Cult Uprising detachment really help a lot, as do those formations - but in a CAD, at this small of a level, I think it relies too much on luck.
That being said, biomancy patriarch is awesome, 10/10. Flyrants are always great, and I love my exocrines. You're relying on your flyrant and exocrine to a LOT of the heavy lifting shooting wise, so if they get smoked you're relying entirely on good rolls on the ambush table to get stuck in, otherwise any decent player will just kite the units and take them out with small arms fire.
I think this list is either going to win big, or lose big, but its a gamble. Not a very consistent list at this points level/in a CAD, but it has the potential to be disastrous and put your opponent in a REALLY bad spot in terms of fire priority. I had a blast playing against you yesterday, and until turn 4 it was basically a tie.
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Post by Eric formerly Eric on Jan 19, 2017 12:43:51 GMT -6
Yeah thanks. I noticed that it kinda turned when I wasn't able to do much out of cult ambush and your deep strikers smoked me. That's why I added the demolition charges. Do you think that's a good add? I figured that, while 6s aren't reliable, I'll probably get a few 4s or 5s, so I need to take advantage when I do. My other thought was to take out the Zoanthrope and replace it with some neophyte mining lasers or a metamorph squad.
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Post by rogerspacem on Jan 19, 2017 12:51:44 GMT -6
I don't think the demo's are worth it. Only because of the range of the throw and the chances are pretty decent it might land on your guys. I would either get seismic cannons or mining lasers. Probably seismic. Plus the demo is worth 20 points for good odds it would fall on your guys.
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Post by rogerspacem on Jan 19, 2017 13:11:16 GMT -6
Out of curiosity, what if you try? You have 5 points flying around to spend.
CAD: GSC HQ: Patriarch, ML:2, warlord, biomancy -115 Magus, ML2, the Crouchling, broodmind powers - 85
Elite: Genestealers x5 - 70
Troops: Neophytes x10, seismic cannon - 70 Neophytes x10, seismic cannon - 70 Neophytes x10, 2 flamers - 60 Neophytes x10, 2 grenade launchers - 60
TYRANID ALLIED DETACHMENT HQ: Flyrant w 2 TLBLWD -230
Elite: Zoanthrope- 50
Troop Mucolid spore - 15
HS: Exocrine - 170
As Nick mentioned, your flyrant and Exocrine, would be doing the heavy lifting in terms of fire power, but now that your Patriarch is ML 2 and sticking to bio, he can get super scary (and better chances to grab either Iron Arm or Endurance...or actually any of them aside from the 6th power...) You are down a squad, which sucks, but now if any of your units were to roll a 4 or higher, all the squads can do some damage without blowing themselves up. Again as Nick mentioned, you method will do damage (High risk and High reward), but if your demo squads can't get in within 6" then they are most likely going to get shot up, before doing anything effective.... assuming they roll good on the chart. Also where did you plan to have your magus at?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 19, 2017 13:31:00 GMT -6
I love the concept of Demolition charges, but they are just another random chance your adding to the list. If your looking for stability I don't think you going to find it with the Demo charges. I've played 2 games where I took 4 seismic cannons, and they were of middling use as well. They get several shots, 2 within 12" and 4 within 24" but the accuracy of the neophytes is really low. Discarding the "6" rending like effect, the seismic cannon is a 2 shot missile launcher, or a 4 shot heavy bolter. Its an alright gun, but it costs a significant amount in your list and dies very easily to any type of enemy fire. I think you need a lot of them if you want to be successful (not to mention only 1 comes in a box of neophytes).
Way I see it, you, myself, and any one else looking to play GSC in the tournament has to overcome the fact that we aren't getting any of the benefits of the cult insurrection detachment. In that detachment, I think Acolytes are what really shines is the insurrection as you get Shrouded on most of the units for the first turn and can take so many MSUs that its impossible to focus down everything. Furthermore, you get the D6 replenish effect which ensures you opponent must focus down a squad completely which ends up often times causing them to waste extra shots they might have had.
So, without all that, what do we have left? Well, you can still run MSU acolytes, but in the end your counting on 6s otherwise the small acolyte squads are just going to get vaporized by a stiff breeze as they lack the bonus survivability from the detachment. So, with that in mind I think you look to what a CAD offers, its giving you the ability to score and the ability have objective secured troops. One of the things GSC is great for is just cheap troops that can easily come in anytime. Remember, there are six objectives on a table, and its unlikely that you will be able to take them all, but playing to control the majority of the objectives still wins you the game. Keep you cheap troops hidden and holding objectives, rather then hoping for 6s, make it so the opponent has to come and engage you if they want objectives. That way you can counter charge them should they move to far out.
I'd suggest cutting the fat and keeping the cult REAL slim. That way you can use them just to skirmish and grab objectives, meanwhile that frees more points to invest into the heavier support elements you can bring with the nids.
A full CAD of GSC consisting a Magus with 6 squads of either acolytes or neophytes only costs between 305-365 points. That is REALLY cheap for what they can bring. If you put down neophytes, your looking at 60 objectives secured bodies that can cult ambush pretty much anywhere on the table to grab objectives. In general, I think you just want body count in the CAD then use whatever points you have left to Add on things that are going to hurt your opponent consistently and don't need to rely on rolling the 6 to be effective.
You could take a patriarch and give him telepathy for that almost guaranteed ambush + psychic shriek to take out a backfield heavy support unit or clear an objective. Biomancy on the patriarch can be really good, but with only one roll at ML 1 your chances of rolling the great powers (Endurance or Iron Arm) are only 1:3. There are so other okay ones, namely Warp Speed and Enfeeble, but the witchfires are really subpar given the patriarchs mediocre BS. Normally I'd be all for Biomancy, but given that you keep the powers you roll for the entire tournament, that's a big risk to take when I know Psychic Shriek will help out pretty much every game and its the Primaris.
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Post by Eric formerly Eric on Jan 19, 2017 13:39:00 GMT -6
Haha cause I don't have more neophytes. I have 26 Neophytes, 15 acolytes and 7 Metamorphs to work with. I have 16 genestealers though, so I could use them instead of acolytes.
I usually run subterranean Uprising but formations don't take objectives. All in all, I'm probably going with a marine army cause this is too hard to get right. As Nick said, our game was pretty close. The main turning point was his destroyers deepstriking and taking out my backfield while my cult ambushers failed miserably to do the same. Granted, I also killed my flyrant and Magus with perils...
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Post by Eric formerly Eric on Jan 19, 2017 13:40:05 GMT -6
Good point Will. I'll look at revising it with slimmed down Obsec in mind to bring more Nid heavy hitters.
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Post by Eric formerly Eric on Jan 19, 2017 14:34:17 GMT -6
Ok so with wills comment in mind, I did this:
GSC Cad Magus, ML2, the Crouchling, broodmind powers - 85
Troops: Acolytes x5- 40 Acolytes x5 -40 Acolytes x5,- 40 Neophytes x10, 2 flamers - 60 Neophytes x13, 2 grenade launchers, 2 mining lasers- 105
TYRANID Cad HQ: Flyrant w 2 TLBLWD -230
Elite: Zoanthrope- 50
Troop Mucolid spore - 15 Mucolid spore - 15
HS: Carnifex - Devourers- 150 Exocrine - 170
So I added a Carnifex. I also added another mucolid spore to make it a cad. Basically the spores are good distraction units cause they force my opponent to choose between acolytes and s8 explosions.
I also put some lasers and extra neophytes in the Magus's squad since he's now the warlord.
I'm still worried about my ability to grab backfield objectives but this may be my best bet.
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Post by rogerspacem on Jan 19, 2017 15:37:23 GMT -6
I thought the tournament only allowed one CAD and one ally detachment?
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Post by rogerspacem on Jan 19, 2017 15:38:20 GMT -6
Ok so with wills comment in mind..
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Post by Eric formerly Eric on Jan 19, 2017 16:26:48 GMT -6
I thought the tournament only allowed one CAD and one ally detachment? I thought it was any other detachment/formation for this one, I'd have to check with Madison actually. If not, then I give up haha. Going with marines
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Post by Eric formerly Eric on Jan 19, 2017 16:45:46 GMT -6
Ok so with wills comment in mind.. Huh? I was going off his suggestion to do minimum objective grabbers and focus on tyranid firepower
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Post by 1D3chan on Jan 19, 2017 19:03:12 GMT -6
I thought the tournament only allowed one CAD and one ally detachment? I thought it was any other detachment/formation for this one, I'd have to check with Madison actually. If not, then I give up haha. Going with marines YPlayers have to bring 1 mandatory CAD as their primary detachment, and then can take 1 optional formation (any). This could be an allied detachment, any formation as long as the faction was Battle Brothers or Allies of Convenience (if different than the Primary CAD faction) or it could even be another CAD (but only your mandatory primary one will score)
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Post by rogerspacem on Jan 19, 2017 20:32:30 GMT -6
thanks for the clarification. IF that is the case, then you good eric.
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