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Post by Nick P on Sept 29, 2016 14:00:38 GMT -6
First go at an 1850 Genestealer Cult list. Should be fun, nothing too crazy, but want to keep it somewhat competitive (at least, as much as you can without spamming formations etc). Let me know what you think! Cult Insurrection Detachment - all units in this detachment have Infiltrate. Units that already had infiltrate have Shrouded on turn 1. Any unit that comes on from ongoing reserves adds D6 models that were removed earlier in the battle. Core Formation: Neophyte Cavalcade - Neophytes must start in their chimeras. All vehicles gain Scout. Since Scout sentinels already have scout, they gain Cult Ambush instead. On a 4+, vehicles in this formation can ignore Stunned/Shaken/Immobilized results (though they still eat the hull point). - 10 Neophyte Hybrids, 2 mining lasers, Chimera - 145
- 10 Neophyte Hybrids, 2 mining lasers, Chimera - 145
- 1 Leman Russ Exterminator, Milti-Melta Sponsons, lascannon - 160
- 2 Scout Sentinels, Multi-Lasers - 70
Auxiliary Formation: Subterranean Uprising - all units have infiltrate. When rolling to Cult Ambush, they roll 2D6 and pick the best. If joined by a Primus, they roll 3D6 and pick the best. - 10 Acolyte Hybrids, 3 rock saws - 155
- 10 Acolyte Hybrids, 3 rock cutters - 155
- 10 Metamorph Hybrids, 10 crushing claws - 110
- Primus, Sword of the Voids Eye - 90
Auxiliary Formation: Doting Throng - all units within 12" of the Magus have Zealot. The unit the Magus joins gets hatred every turn, not just the 1st round of combat. Magus can reroll psychic tests when targeting blessings on units from this formation. - Magus, lvl 2, Broodmind - 65
- 10 Neophyte Hybrids, 2 seismic cannons - 90
- 10 Neophyte Hybrids, 2 seismic cannons - 90
- 10 Neophyte Hybrids, 2 seismic cannons - 90
Auxiliary Formation: Shadow Skulkers
- 10 Purestrain Genestealers - 140
Command Formation: Lord of the Cults
- Genestealer Patriarch, lvl 2, Biomancy, warlord - 115
Combined Arms Detachment
HQ: 2x Primus, 75 each
Troops: 2x5 Acolytes, 40 each
Total Points: 1850 The two primus' from the CAD hop into the units in the Subterranean Assault formation, so that all three hybrid units have an attached primus, so all 3 can roll 3D6 for their ambush at the beginning of the game on turn 1 when they deploy. That gives them a 50% chance to get set up 3" away from the enemy with an allowed turn 1 charge. The 2 acolyte units are rocking 4 S4 I4 WS4 attacks on the charge, and their power tools are basically chainfists (saw) and an ID weapon (cutter). The metamorphs also get 4 I4 WS4 attacks on the charge - but their claws make them S6, and they have rending. 40 S6 rending attacks on the charge. For 110 points. Duh. The Patriarch goes in with the purestrains (same cost as Tyranid stealers, but they have a 5++ invuln dodge save, and stealth, and furious charge), and is really just a blender of infantry and elite units alike. The patriarch, if he gets the right biomancy powers, will just hulk out and kill stuff. The Doting Throng is just a cheap way of getting more Neophytes into the mix, allowing them to infiltrate with the rest of the detachment with a chance to be right up in the opponents face turn 1. They rock around with seismic cannons, which are S8 AP3 within 12" and S5 AP4 beyond 12". The idea is to infiltrate close (rolling a 4,5,6 on the ambush table) so they can unleash their S8 AP3 into the rear/side of some vehicles, MCs, or GMCs to pop them off. The Neophyte Cavalcade can scout or outflank, again with the theme of putting pressure on the opponent right away and forcing them to make decisions on where to shoot. Its also a fun opportunity to convert some IG units that I would never normally get my hands on, so I'm excited for that. With the whole army able to infiltrate, decide to go into ongoing reserves, and ambush back in the next turn (with D6 new wounds!), the idea is to be in constant flux - appearing, charging/shooting, taking a turn of wounds, disappearing, repeat. Popping up on objectives I need, contesting my opponents objectives, then sulking back to the shadows, and repeating. Just a lot of wakka mole basically, and I'm excited to try it out. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 29, 2016 14:51:12 GMT -6
Personally I think the Heavy Weapons on the neophytes are awful atm. Unless they FAQ it, its up for dispute whether units arriving from Ambush count as having moved or not. It says they " move onto the table as described for other Reserves and cannot move any further during the Movement phase of the turn the deploy or arrive on the battlefield". If they count as having moved them you'd have to fire snap shots and they just aren't worth it in my opinion. If you count as stationary then its definitely worth it.
The Subterranean Assault formation is great, but I suspect that we'll see an Errata regarding the Primus thing before to long. Perhaps its intended to work that way, the fluff is that there is only one Primus per cult so I'd be surprised if it stays that way.
I have an unfavorable opinion of the Doting throng, its designed to buff the neophytes but I don't think it does a good job of that. You have relatively few Blessings available to the magus. Mental Fortitude and Invisibility from Telepathy, Endurance from Biomancy, or Psychic Stimulus and Might from Beyond from Brood Mind. All the powers from brood mind reward melee units, so you likely to cast those on other units that are more effective in close combat *cough* acolytes *cough*, while the remaining powers increase your durability which benefits bigger squads. I'd recommend dropping the Throng all together and moving the neophytes into a cad where you can get objective secured on them. Just let the neophytes hang back, disappear turn 4 and take an objective from someone on turn 5. Then take those 10 acolytes you were using in the CAD and add them to the Subterranean assault for more punch out of the gate. Alternate Take: Give the doting Throng Neophytes all shotguns, some Cult Icons, Power Picks/Mauls and add some more bodies to the unit. Then they become pretty solid tarpits and easily able to be buffed by the Magus. Putting two familiars on the Magus makes him very good in close combat as well. Suddenly you have a mob of 60 guys who are trashing people in close combat.
Not to discount it, as a lot of people really like the cavalcade, but I think the benefits you get from the brood cycle are better. The 24" bubble of Furious Charge and Feel No Pain is pretty useful. Add in the fact that the Sentinels and Chimera don't really add much to the army and I think your better off leaving them behind. If you really want to bring some Chimera put them on the CAD Neophytes I suggested above and get objective secured on them. The Leman Russ Executioner is great though, definitely bring 1-2 of those for armor punching.
Just my initial opinions
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Post by Nick P on Sept 29, 2016 15:12:20 GMT -6
The way I read the Ambush rule, its actually very clear. The first 2 options specifically say "move on", the other options say "place". Maybe we'll see an FAQ that says if you come in from reserves using it, they all count as move, but RAW (and especially upon deployment, I would argue) the 4/6 of them that say "place" would not count the unit as having moved. But other than that I agree with your synopsis - if it were to be FAQd the other way, the heavy weapons would be useless.
I also tend to agree with your opinion on the Doting Throng. I take it because it just gives more infiltrating units that can arrive on turn 1 right in your opponents face, and I think maximizing that is both fluffy and effective at forcing your opponent into an unpleasant situation. But maybe using ob-sec instead will be better, moving the 3x10 units into 2x15 units to have more staying power, and adding the 10 acolytes to the subterranean formation is certainly a better boon in the long run. Hell, it would let me take another 10 metamorphs instead, which are even better than acolytes if you ask me.
The brood cycle is just really expensive to do "right". If you take standard naked units, its about the same cost as the cavalcade. To make it effective, you're looking at ~800 points. But, that being said, the 24" FnP and Furious Charge bubble is pretty nifty, especially if I'm using a beefier subteranean assault formation.
I think ultimately the "hotness" is going to be a minimum Brood Cylce for the banner buff, and a bunch of subteranean assaults. Kind of like a poor mans Canoptek Harvest with all that rending.
Also, I don't *want* to bring sentinels or chimera, but you have to in the Cavalcade. Hence the problem.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 29, 2016 15:21:37 GMT -6
For sure. I don't have the codex in hand, but I think the Brood Cycle Banner buff only effects units from the formation unfortunately. As a result, the most metal GSC armies will probably just spam Sub Uprisings and take some AM or Tyranid allies for anti air. The Air superiority detachment or Flying Hive Tyrants are both really mean additions to the army.
That aside. I'm personally having a hard time deciding whether to go with the "meta-detachment" or just a CAD. The D6 Models back every time you run into the shadows is pretty amazing, considering it makes it so there is no penalty for losing your expensive rock saws. Neither of the Core choices are particularly appealing and Objective Secured on units that can "teleport" any where on the board is almost to good.
Also, if you take two CAD you could have 4 magus' (very unfluffy though) for very cheap. Roll all of them on Broodmind and your almost guaranteed the Summoning Power. Daemons are good for reason. The ability to just keep summoning Genestealers or Acolytes to send in wave after wave is pretty strong. Then T4 you just blip to the objective, or if its Maelstrom you can just move to w/e you need to cap that turn.
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Post by Eric formerly Eric on Sept 29, 2016 19:55:19 GMT -6
Thats a pretty dope list. The subterranean swarm is pretty solid, although the randomness makes everything fairly unreliable unless the rules confer to any primus.
Since Im not going to expand my Overkill army too much, I'll probably just run a cad with lots of acolytes and genestealers.
Speaking of which, how does this codex release affect the Ghosar Quintus formation? Is it still legal? Do the units get the codex rules like Cult Ambush?
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Post by Deleted on Sept 29, 2016 20:11:22 GMT -6
The Ghosar Quintus formation is still valid, however, you use the old rules that are online and free. So in short nothing changes for them.
You can run the contents of the Overkill box as a CAD though, in which case they'd gain all the new rules.
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Post by Nick P on Sept 30, 2016 6:57:48 GMT -6
The subterranean swarm is pretty solid, although the randomness makes everything fairly unreliable unless the rules confer to any primus. Well the rules for the formation don't say "the primus from this formation", they just say "If a unit in this formation has been joined by a primus" they get the 3d6. Maybe they'll FAQ it, but for now you're free to use primus' from CADs and the like to join the units in that formation for the bonus. What do you guys think of the different heavy weapon options (for both neophytes and acolytes)? I'm torn between the seismic cannon and the heavy laser, and things like the cutter and saw for acloytes seem so good (the drill seems very situational), but I'm wondering if the effects of the cutter are really ever going to come into play. Technically it's not an ID weapon, so things like GMCs aren't immune... |
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Post by Nick P on Sept 30, 2016 7:03:32 GMT -6
I have an unfavorable opinion of the Doting throng Also I just realized that you can take acolytes instead of neophytes, so the fact that the Zealot rule and the blessings seem to favor combat are much more suited to them over neophytes. They're more expensive, unless you take them naked (viable-ish), but I think that is probably where this formation thrives. 3 units of 10 acolytes, kitted with 4 heavy CCWs each, getting rerolls and blessings (give the magus the Crouchling so it knows 3 spells + the primaris on broodmind?). Damnit, this whole army is just "buy 20 boxes of 5 models each for $800" lol |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 30, 2016 7:22:13 GMT -6
Damnit, this whole army is just "buy 20 boxes of 5 models each for $800" lol More or less, at every turn of building a list I find myself needing to buy another 4-5 boxes of acolytes. Even the Acolytes from Overkill are pretty expensive now, they have been trending ~$50 for x12. I'm running the bulk of my army as neophytes right now, I'll try to trickle in some more Acolytes over the coming months. Maybe at some point they will release the overkill contents at a decent price like they did with Kill Team Cassius, that would solve several of the problems. |
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Post by Eric formerly Eric on Sept 30, 2016 8:30:34 GMT -6
I have a feeling that they won't, since that is the main draw of DWOK. It's crazy that 5 acolytes are more expensive than a Deathwatch kill team. I feel like they should be priced the same as the tyranid troop boxes (ie. $30). Im just lucky that Im taking these guys as allies rather than a full army. I may end up grabbing a box of acolytes, but that would be it.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 30, 2016 9:02:47 GMT -6
I'd be okay with the $40 dollar price tag if it was for a box of 10. I'd even be okay with the Metamorphs being a separate box of 5 for $40, as they are elites. I suspect that is why the Acolytes are so much, typically elite choices have always been more expensive then troops so we get charged for the metamorphs in the box rather than just the acolytes.
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Post by Nick P on Sept 30, 2016 9:11:38 GMT -6
I'm with you will, $40 for 10 would be reasonable. For 5? When they're 8 points a piece, ie $1 per point? Man, its tough to swallow. eBay prices over the last week have skyrocketed, from $25-30 for the 12/16 hybrid packs, to $45-50. Even so, $50 for 12 acolytes is better than $80 for 10 acolytes, but yeah. I will end up buying a couple of boxes of each, just for the bits, so I can customize the slew of monopose models I intend to build up for this list.
I'm also hoping that, much like how the DW:OK models for DW were put into a kit, the GSC will as well. Maybe a "Start Collecting!" for $85 would make sense? I would buy the shit out of that, like 3-4 of them, easily.
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Post by Nick P on Sept 30, 2016 9:13:25 GMT -6
I'm also heavily considering buying up a bunch of DV Chaos Cultist lots off ebay and converting them. Shave off the chaos stars, throw in some heavy weapons from the Neophyte kit, and bobs your uncle - who said GSC neophytes all had to be PDF? Surely some gutter rats who could get their hands on some autoguns would be in the mix too?
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Post by Joelercoaster on Sept 30, 2016 9:37:00 GMT -6
I used.. I think empire... Men at arm's plus some bits as the basis for my necromunda gang, and I think that sort of look would be very appropriate for a cult (a bunch of badly armed and armored rabble). Genestealer boxes would provide bits for the acolytes just fine if you're willing to put in conversion work.
The biggest issue is the special weapons which you'd have to just figure out.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 30, 2016 9:43:13 GMT -6
If there is a nice body in one of the imperial lines you can easily convert 5 extra acolytes from a box. The sprue comes with enough arms and heads to add them onto something else, the difficulty is just finding something appropriately sized and good looking.
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