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Post by Deleted on Apr 9, 2014 11:04:13 GMT -6
Hey guys, I figured I'd crowd source some thoughts on how I should kit my canoness. Originally I wanted to give her a condemner boltgun, because it looks sweet as hell, but an errata in the Grey Knights codex (which may or may not effect the sisters codex) made it very impractical. With that in mind, I'm going to shelf that build idea. I've listed all the gear the canoness can take, and I want to see what you all think would be a good loadout.
About the Canoness:
She has an above average stat line for a human, running 5s in BS/WS, but suffers from human strength and toughness. She strikes at marine initiative, with 3 attacks, which isn't "bad". Her act of faith gives her squad hatred, she is an IC, has a +6 invuln, and Stubborn. I personally feel she needs to be kept as far away from CC as possible, because T3 just wrecks her.
What the Canoness can Take:
She comes stock with power armor, bolt pistol, chainsword, and grenades
Can Take:
4+ invuln save
Melta Bombs
One of the Following Melee Weapon options -
Power Weapon
Eviscerator
Chainsword
Ranged Weapon options -
Boltgun/pistol
Storm Bolter
Combi-weapon
Plasma Pistol
Inferno Pistol (Meltagun pistol version, 6" range though)
One of the following Relic options -
Master-Crafted Power Sword that gives +2 strength
units in 12" to auto pass fear/morale checks
squad to auto pass leadership test for acts of faith
Re-rolls to failed armor and the 6+ invuln save
Eternal Warrior
Master Crafted Power Sword that adds +2 strength
The core I start with is 4+ save and Eternal Warrior, which puts me at a little over 100pts. From there however, I don't really know what to take. I also have the problem of do I put her with the 20 man blob squad I run of sisters, or do a make a squad for her. I've been thinking that for a dedicated squad I could put her with retributors wielding heavy flamers. That squad would consist of 4 heavy flamers, and sergeant (bolt pistol/ chainsword), a multi-melta immolator (razorback equivalent) and the canoness. The retributors can grant their h. flamers and any gun the canoness takes rending, making them a pretty sweet elite-unit hunter.
Any comments and thoughts on it would be helpful. The build doesn't need to be game breaking, I'm just curious as to if you guys see if you guys can come up with something different then what I have.
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Post by jefferestinpeace on Apr 9, 2014 11:23:22 GMT -6
Sounds fun. My guess is that the best thing that a 4+ invul and EW is going to give this lady is Warlord denial, which is important. How much of a force multiplier can she be? Since survival is number one priority for a less-than-scary HQ, you want her to maximize the army's effectiveness. I'd say at the core, Melta Bombs are probably an auto-include: cheap and effective on an EW model, especially at WS5. The autopass fear/morale makes everything near her essentially Space Marines, which is pretty good, barring the price. I hear Acts of Faith can be baller though, so that one might be your best bet, put her near the Immolators or whatever the Heavy Weapons team is called. I'd take a Combi-flamer or melta as well, just in case.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 9, 2014 11:29:44 GMT -6
Sounds fun. My guess is that the best thing that a 4+ invul and EW is going to give this lady is Warlord denial, which is important. How much of a force multiplier can she be? Since survival is number one priority for a less-than-scary HQ, you want her to maximize the army's effectiveness. I'd say at the core, Melta Bombs are probably an auto-include: cheap and effective on an EW model, especially at WS5. The autopass fear/morale makes everything near her essentially Space Marines, which is pretty good, barring the price. I hear Acts of Faith can be baller though, so that one might be your best bet, put her near the Immolators or whatever the Heavy Weapons team is called. I'd take a Combi-flamer or melta as well, just in case. The pass fear/morale costs as much as melta bombs, while the auto-aof is three times as much (but she gives her squad LD 10 anyways, and AoF tests are taken on the highest LD, so idk that it'd be that handy). I wasn't thinking about the melta bombs inconjunction with EW though, thats a good point. I'm so use to the sisters dying before they even attack to consider them most of the time. |
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Post by Nick P on Apr 9, 2014 11:41:05 GMT -6
Yeah I'm with Jeff - melta bombs, 4++, and EW to start with - and then kit her out based on what she's going to be joining. If she's going in a blob squad, give her the auto-pass fear and morale checks relic, so they are near impossible to move off an objective. If she's going in a heavy weapon squad or elite hunter squad, equip her with like equipment - combi flamer, combi melta, etc so you can be even more effective at taking out whatever you're targeting.
With fragile characters (hey dark eldar what up) I always like to use them in an innocuous-ish squad of elite or tank hunters, so that the opponent really doesn't want to target them, but kind of has to, and then has to make decisions. Then make the character as survivable as possible to frustrate your opponent, and run around the board targeting high value targets.
This is the same tactic I use with my archon/incubi and archon/trueborn squads...no one really wants to spend time trying to kill 5 models, but if they don't I tear through their TEQs and vehicles like they're paper...and when they do finally target me, I've got a 2++, combat drugs, and pain tokens to keep me going. Is a very handy harassing unit.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 9, 2014 11:53:28 GMT -6
With fragile characters (hey dark eldar what up) I always like to use them in an innocuous-ish squad of elite or tank hunters, so that the opponent really doesn't want to target them, but kind of has to, and then has to make decisions. Then make the character as survivable as possible to frustrate your opponent, and run around the board targeting high value targets. That is true, by putting her in a 20 man blob, with priest support, I'm insulating the warlord pretty heavily while effectively making the opponent choose between chewing through 20+ models in power that are a scoring unit, or focus my other smaller scoring units that are worth less VPs. In either case it should give me the time needed to move my troops forward to secure objectives. |
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cj
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Post by cj on Apr 9, 2014 15:58:42 GMT -6
Can you give her multiple melta pistols?
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Post by Matt W. on Apr 9, 2014 16:45:50 GMT -6
Does the FAQ for the Grey Knights reflect the wording of the Sister's codex concerning the condemner boltgun?
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Post by Deleted on Apr 9, 2014 17:13:29 GMT -6
Can you give her multiple melta pistols? I wish, that would be such a cool looking model. Does the FAQ for the Grey Knights reflect the wording of the Sister's codex concerning the condemner boltgun? Technically the Grey Knights codex errata would not apply, however, as the wording, points cost, and general fluff is identical between the two I'd argue it applies. What it changes is that psi-shock normally inflicted perils on any psyker it hit, but the errata changed it to requiring that you wound the psyker to inflict perils (which honesty makes more sense). The condemner just costs to much points wise for needing so much to go right. I also went back and checked, I can only take one relic. In 9:10 cases I'd pick the EW relic. |
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Post by Nick P on Apr 9, 2014 17:29:15 GMT -6
Yeah with T3? Grab that EW all day
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Post by Deleted on Apr 9, 2014 19:24:27 GMT -6
So, it looks like the loadout I'm going to use will be Bolt Pistol, Chainsword, Mantle of Ophelia (EW), Melta Bombs, and a Rosarius (4++). She weighs in at 110pts this way and is pretty tanky for a T3 Human. I'm going to put her in the Blob squad and roll for command traits to get a nice 12" bubble of some kind.
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Post by Joelercoaster on Apr 10, 2014 11:01:52 GMT -6
I hate to see an HQ without any proper weapons. If she's going in a blob, which is essentially X bonus wounds (times 5/6... thank you, Look Out, Sir!), I would almost say that EW isn't nearly as necessary. You can dodge challenges with the Priest, or just by not accepting.
I posit, good sirs, that EW benefits more the Cannoness with Cahones (tm).
If the fine lady *wants* to find herself in combat, give her an Eviscerator and EW. Why? The following -
Vs Marine Characters you're striking simo, ignoring armor, and forcing them to eat through 3 4++'s before you stop swinging. Honestly most marine characters that want to be in combat are at least S7, so T3/4 is moot, aside from Insta-Death, which (gasp) EW protects you from anyway. Unless someone (here's looking at you, Dan K) has a guy on a bike with EW and a 3++, you're going to be gibbing the crap out of them. And if they do, then their HQ is twice the cost of yours, so you still get to laugh.
Vs Gaurd/Tau type Characters... you just won Dungeons and Dragons. And it was Advanced!
Vs Nids - Honestly, it's not as bad as you'd think at first glance. They can't gib you (MC's love to smash characters for that), so they still have to eat through 3 4++'s (and Tyrants don't really have mass attacks). You'll be wounding them steadily (baring fear tests, which, Ld 10 much?), if not a ton. Probably one a round is to be expected. Ish. They have the edge, I'd say, but it's far from hopeless, and it'll frustrate them that they cant just walk through your T3 character.
Vs Eldar - Archons will cry that their huskblade doesn't work. I'd actually rather send the Duke after you, due to mass combat poison. More honestly, I'd just shoot you. Eldar can pull some nice combat characters, but those also rely largely on Insta-Death... and your S6 will make them not like you. So at that point it goes back to the dice... will they fail their Inv before you fail yours?
This Cannoness begs to be put into a forward squad. She wants to challenge. Can she take a jump pack still? Ride with Seraphim? Or something.
You can also build a great support character, and just toss her in a blob. But I'd go with a support Relic at that point. Build the build, man. Build the build.
PS - GW no longer has any FAQ's. So there's that. Double Crossbow all the way!!
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Post by Deleted on Apr 10, 2014 13:02:51 GMT -6
If the fine lady *wants* to find herself in combat, give her an Eviscerator and EW. I won't lie, the idea of an eviscerator is pretty sweet, they just cost an arm and a leg. In the old dex they were 20pts, which was doable, now they are 30pts which makes me question their use alot more. Aside from the cost though, an eviscerator canoness with a priest supporting her would actually be serious threat. She would almost guaranteed have re-rolls on failed armor/invuln saves from the priest, as well as re-rolls to hit from hatred in round 1, and re-rolls on failed wounds also from the priest. |
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