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Post by jefferestinpeace on Apr 7, 2014 13:19:45 GMT -6
So, in the wake of all the Adepticon madness, I've come to believe that the game as it stands in its most real iteration is pretty broken. Not un-fun, but just too-often annoying. We all like winning, but we all also enjoy playing games that either side could end up winning, and that unfortunately only really happens when everyone involved wants that to situation. I think that some sort of narrative campaign where free-form story development and conscious consideration of everyone's enjoyment stands at the forefront might really open up everything we love about pushing painted plastic. I'm posting to gauge interest. I don't know if anyone's familiar with the Nal'un Awakening, but that's essentially what I'm talking about. I wouldn't want to copy it exactly and would like things to be run somewhat more linear than what they did, but I would hardly be the Dungeon Master, with the narrative mostly constructed by those playing the game. Participation would be totally optional and open; no one has to sign up and no one is penalized for missing anything. If Russell's Imperial Fists decide to shove their bolters up the asses of Nick's fully-painted Nids (do they have asses?) for one week, but then are never seen again, that's totally fine. If English Chris says it's a stupid idea and shits on my car every week for 6 months then sees how much fun we're having and decides to mold those shits into his new Fart Eagles chapter and jump in, that's cool too. But, consistent participation would be rewarded, as well as creativity and sometimes performance, but I don't want anyone fearing elimination or anything like that. Before I move onto the details that have been running through my head on how this would be structured, let me know your interest. I know Brohammer as a whole has a lot to figure out in the next coming months, but we really have to remember to keep playing. This would be a long term, free love sort of thing, which could incorporate the handful of games you might get in every week pretty easily. I also welcome any peanut gallery bullshit/links to other campaigns that I might be able to draw some inspiration from. I want the whole thing to be very democratic because America is the best country in the world with zero problems and stands as a model of beauty and freedom and perfection for everything ever in the entirety of eternity. Also, how awesome is that Fart Eagles chapter I just made up?
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Post by Nick P on Apr 7, 2014 13:29:20 GMT -6
I would love to participate, with either (or both?) Nids and Dark Eldar. With the store gone, I haven't actually played a game since...well, early March I guess? Which sucks! I feel like a campaign or something of that nature would be the perfect impetus to get my ass (and other people's asses) in gear to keep playing regularly. I welcome it!
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Post by Nick P on Apr 7, 2014 13:30:00 GMT -6
Nick's fully-painted Nids HA this guy over here
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Post by Deleted on Apr 7, 2014 13:49:06 GMT -6
I'm super interested in this. I've always wanted to do a formal narrative campaign. Additionally, I'd be in huge support of a system for creating our own Characters to use in the campaign. Mainly, I just want to not "have" to bring a named character, because the cannoness just doesn't compare.
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Post by Nick P on Apr 7, 2014 14:00:42 GMT -6
Will we tried something similar for Fantasy, and I don't know how far it went bc I stopped participating, but from what I understand the characters added a lot of flavor and were so unique to each faction that it made the campaign much more enjoyable...I would love to bring that mechanic to 40k as well - I'm in the same boat dude, Archons and especially Succubi are just no where as good as the two staple characters, Baron and Duke
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Post by Airik on Apr 7, 2014 14:20:41 GMT -6
This could be something I could get into. I've wanted to play a 40k campaign for a long while now, and this would definitely satisfy that itch.
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Post by jefferestinpeace on Apr 7, 2014 15:45:39 GMT -6
Yeah, the character idea is something that we'd have to figure out. From what I've seen, it's troublesome in regards to making them OP, scaling balance (+1T on a Hive Tyrant vs. +1T on an Archon), and difficult to conceptualize, but also too cool to pass up. I kinda also want to say "No Named Characters Allowed!" but it's easy to just have the Baron or Belial just be a counts as dude who does the exact same thing. I have yet to find one that actually fits into this kind of system. If anyone has any links to proven ideas, please share.
So, I was hoping to actually do this through narrative elements, utilizing a "Rule of Threes" and having it be available to all units, not just HQs. For instance, let's say one of Nick's Wych squads gets obliterated by Space Marines three times in a given "cycle" (more on that later), it would make sense that the squad gains Hatred: Space Marines. Or maybe they roll the same Combat Drug three games in a row, Nick could just have them take that Combat Drug straight up from there on out. These aren't overpowered or, as leveling up went in Mordheim, randomly useless, but narratively compelling and applicable.
I'm imagining these things also pretty loose and malleable and okay to change if it ends up really shitting all over people's cars, so ultimately subject to community review + approval during the "Experience Phase" at the end of a narrative "cycle." This is where you're rewarded not only for playing, but playing fluffily, contributing to the overall narrative, and complicating the story. You could also almost tailor those rewards as you want to achieve them. Let's say Chris wants a squad of his Devastators to get Tank Hunter and sets out to blow up a fuckload of tanks. So he schedules a million games against Mike and his Dark Eldar, blows up all his Raiders all the time and the community approves his upgrade. However, Chris has also given Mike the opportunity for an upgrade of his own. Mike constructs an easy argument that his Dark Eldar aren't retarded, and see that they need something more against those stupid Ultramarines that keep ruining their shit, proposing an upgrade that he gets to re-roll his Flickerfield saves against that Devastator squad.
The system could also reward you for accidentally being awesome; let's say that same Devastator squad ends up shooting at a shitload of Flyers and rolling a ton of sixes. Guess what, bitches, you might propose that you should get Skyfire. All of this would have to abide by the Rule of Threes (do the same thing in three games), be narratively convincing to the community (bonus points for creativity), and not be purposely OP (yes, Brainleech Devourers are S6 and technically ID'd a bunch of T3 Guardians in a bunch of games, but no your Hive Tyrant doesn't get the Instant Death special rule). Obviously that last example would not make it past whatever we deem to be "community approval."
It needs polish and a guarantee that players who don't hit that magical Rule of Threes don't get left behind, however I think such a system would get a lot of people imagining what they want their army to have and go hunting after certain upgrades. I want it all to be tied together in a single narrative, reflect what has happened in the campaign, and influence decisions in the future.
So, for characters, if you really want your Generic SM Captain to go from zero to hero, like some sort of rise through the ranks to Chapter Master, think of a way to do it, propose it convincingly, then make good. Hell, this could even accidentally happen due to the dice.
I also want community gameplay to be constantly open. I don't want Cycle 1 to be all 500 point games, then we add more for Cycle 2, and so on. Your first game of the campaign can be a 10,000 pt Apoc game if you want; just write the narrative to justify it and consider the results. Conversely, you can also play exclusively 500 point games throughout the entirety of the campaign. Maybe you want your narrative contribution to be a Deathwatch kill team running though the sewers of a planet in the system trying to close the Chaos portal that is spilling all those Slaneeshi Daemons into the world. I want us all to be able to participate on every level of gameplay and inspire each other to set up missions and matches that react to the current state of the campaign and advance the story in unexpected and surprising ways.
Keep talking.
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Post by Joelercoaster on Apr 7, 2014 16:29:36 GMT -6
If this doesn't happen I will kill you in your sleep.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 7, 2014 17:15:34 GMT -6
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Post by jefferestinpeace on Apr 7, 2014 17:50:31 GMT -6
So thinking further, I think there should be two "experience phases" per cycle (one in the middle and one at the end), with participating armies who have played the required number of games choosing two of three types of upgrades. Command - Unit-specific upgrade Personal - Warlord upgrade Strategic - Army-wide upgrade Boy, those names sound familiar, don't they? Command upgrades would be what was detailed above based on singular unit performance/in-game trends. Personal upgrades would be for your little avatar man, maybe FnP, choosing the Warlord trait, providing a -1 Ld bubble, or even something like +1 Attack, based on in-game performance or narrative structuring from game results, opponents, etc. Strategic upgrades should reflect they way your army fluffily plays with things like an FOC shift, being able to reserve more than 50% of your army, or choosing Night Fight rules. I think these are the most compelling, as they would factor in in-game performance, the random elements of pre-game setup (stealing the initiative 3x, constantly rolling up Big Guns, mishapping with Deep Strikers, etc.), narrative developments, and game results. They could also be very powerful, but justifiably so. Honestly, if you steal the initiative in three games, you should be able to convincingly argue to get a 5+ for Stealing from there on out. That's awesome and powerful, but it's also something armies could prepare, plan for, and all but negate. This example also lends more credence to banning or limiting Unique characters who already do this stuff. Still stuff that needs to be worked on, but nothing we shouldn't be able to figure out. These are also just examples and a first attempt to bring a bit of balance and inhibit abuse. Thanks for the thing Will, I'll take a look!
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Andy
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Post by Andy on Apr 7, 2014 18:06:22 GMT -6
I have played in a lot of campaigns. GW Weekenders, Club events, stuff in people's attics and garages. In every case the fewest rules made the most fun. The main advantage of narrative is that it encourages army selection beyond just picking units based on battlefield (or perceived) performance.
I am very interested in playing. I love a chance to spin some fiction out of a series of games. Count me in.
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Josh
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Post by Josh on Apr 7, 2014 18:28:58 GMT -6
The 30 k book is cool and has an interesting narrative we might gets some idea from that I have only just started reading it.
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Post by jefferestinpeace on Apr 7, 2014 18:40:26 GMT -6
I'm all for less and less rules, thanks for the reminder Andy. I'm just thinking a lot out loud here. But as far as upgrades are concerned, simplicity and immersion are why I want everything to be narrative-based and not some abstracted XP system or anything. And the most driving force behind the whole thing should be player contribution and player creation; if I take on a role as anything, it'll just be a sieve. If you want to incorporate ideas, missions, etc. inspired from other sources, please go right ahead! I certainly will be.
I think I got that book downloaded so I'll see what's in there. My guess is it might be a little to rigid for what I'm hoping this will be (if you lose Mission 1, then proceed to X), but I will see what I can find! Thanks!
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Post by Deleted on Apr 7, 2014 18:50:47 GMT -6
The best fit narrative I see as something along the lines of "X" system is beset by a Tyranid Invasion, a Warp Storm, and just happens to have a Tomb World, ala Dawn of War: Soulstorm. Everyone would have the free capability to choose why they are there and set their own personal goals. I for one would have my little sisters regiment deployed with the intention of retrieving ecclesiarchy relics before they are destroyed while also purging every gribbly, mutant, or witch they came across along the way.
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Post by Nick P on Apr 7, 2014 19:09:53 GMT -6
Josh what you call "a cool narrative from the 30k book", the rest of us call "the crux of all imperial fluff and the basis for the entire game of 40k", being the horus heresy lol
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