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Post by Nick P on Jun 23, 2016 12:07:04 GMT -6
Since Eldar Corsairs seem to be what Dark Eldar should have been, and they have all the same weapons/vehicles and mostly the same wargear, I'm going to cobble together a Corsairs list and see how it fares. They seem like super characterful army with a lot of flavor, so I'm excited to give them a whirl. Eldar Corsairs Raiding Company - 1845Command Crew: - Corsair Prince - Brace of Pistols, Jetbike, Shadow Field, Psyker ML 1 (divination), Void Sabre, Reaper Of The Outer Dark, Warlord (strategic duh)
- Void Dreamer - Psyker ML 3 (Aethermancy), Jetpack, Shadow Field
Coterie 1 - Hate Bringers
- Baron - Brace of Pistols, Jetbike, Shimmershield, Psyker ML 1 (divination), Rage, Void Sabre
- 3x Cloud Dancer Flearchs - Jetbikes, scatter lasers, power lances, Rage
Coterie 2 - Titan Hunters
- Baron - Brace of Pistols, Jetpack, Shadow Field, Psyker ML 1 (divination)
- 5x Reavers - Jetpacks, 3x brace of pistols, 2x fusion guns
- 5x Reavers - Jetpacks, 3x brace of pistols, 2x fusion guns
- 5x Reavers - Jetpacks, 3x brace of pistols, 2x fusion guns
- 2x Warp Hunters - Kinetic Shroud
Coterie 3 - Sky Burners - Baron - Brace of Pistols, Jetpack, Shadow Field, Psyker ML 1 (divination), blast pistol
- 5x Reavers - Jetpacks, 3x brace of pistols, 2x blasters
- 1 Nightwing - Kinetic Shroud, 2x bright lances, 2x shuriken cannons
- 1 Phoenix - Kinetic Shroud, 2x phoenix missile launchers, 1 pulse laser, 2x shuriken cannons
Jetbike Baron and Prince go in the Felarch bike squad, and create a nice little 5-man deathstar; 3+ 5++ with a 2++ on the prince, and a couple chances at getting some solid powers as well to boost their effectiveness. With the power lances and void swords, plus rage and rampage, they're hitting extremely hard on the charge and are maneuverable enough to pick their fight. Pick a squishy unit as my "delete this unit and get +1VP" rule for Hate Bringers, and let the bikers go to war. Titan Hunters is really focused on anti-armor; the baron hops into one of the reaver units to add a LD boost and his shadowfield to tank wounds, and the 3 small squads each carry 2 fusion guns to pop vehicles with. Should be fast enough with jetpacks/their 2d6" run after shooting rule to get where I need them to go. I can also find the points to give them all haywire grenades should I need to, if the FAQ on only using 1 per combat phase per unit doesn't hold up in the final version. The real meat and potatoes of that coterie are the warp hunters. Both sporting D-Flails (D weapons that can't roll a 6 on the table), these will do the heavy lifting vs most vehicle. Sky Burners all get deep strike - so my 2 flyers can start on the board where I need them to rather than coming on from reserve on my table edge. Also lets me get a unit of reavers with a baron sporting 3 darklight weapons somewhere close enough to do damage on an enemy vehicle or elite unit. Overall this feels like a WAY more fluffy/well connected list. Might drop one of the Warp Hunters if the 2 D flails seem like overkill, in which case I can add in some additional bodies to the titan-hunter reavers, and boost them up to 4 fusion guns each. |
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Post by 1D3chan on Jun 23, 2016 23:55:15 GMT -6
Pretty cool idea. I genuinely hope you flush this out. I have read over the IA11 Book with them in it extensively, they have extremely devastating potential and play really unlike anything I've ever seen in 40K.
The Bad News: A Bound Corsair List cannot take a Wraithknight or Skathach Wraithknight. The "Wraith Construct" Formation referred to in the IA11 book is the ability to take a Single Wraithknight in a Craftworld Warhost (in the Craftworlds Codex) and just simply replace that with the Skathach. And, the ability to take a Skathach instead of a normal WK in a Wraith Host Formation (The Craftworld Formation with the 3 Squads of Wraithguard, the Wraithlord, Spiritseer and WK) or as a LoW in a Craftworld CAD.
The Good News: You get Warp Hunters and Lynx's instead and they are an incredible substitute, if not better in a ton of ways. And your Psyker can permanently keep MY Wraithknight or Arm&Hammers IK or whatever in ongoing reserves potentially permanently (so taking it out of the game) with one of its psychic powers, maybe the strongest next to invisibility.
Eh the Bad News Again: He's pretty much guaranteed to die a horrific Perils Death and may or may not but probably may turn into a Keeper of Secret in your battle that your opponent controls.
The Good News Again: Use the Multi-Key Phase Generator and with your Baron/Prince and you can open portals around the battlefield for your guys to DS into and I think teleport between without leaving play. You also have Psychic Powers that can send them there immediately.
It's super easy to get mixed up in the book between Corsairs and Craftworld Additions, but they are both in there and are pretty much totally separate. Corsairs don't get the Skathach, the Wraithseer, The Shadow Spectres, the Pale Host stuff. Eldar don't get the Corsair insane teleport tech, hugely varied amount of loadouts for units, The FireStorm, The Vampire Raider, and get weaker versions of the Corsair Hornet, Warp Hunter, and Lynx.
Oh yes, the rule you mentioned about running after shooting RAW applies to Overwatch as well, making it hands down the hardest unit to charge in the game (you could move 12 inches further out of charge range after missing a few snapshots)
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Post by Nick P on Jun 24, 2016 8:10:19 GMT -6
Ah, well then, just might have to get myself a lynx (damn, twist my arm)
The book has so much in it, its really easy to get lost in the details - I feel like there is a way to write a more cohesive list, and the list I have above just feels like I am trying to make these play like Dark Eldar, and I know I need to get out of that mindset.
I'm very excited about the psychic powers, the webway maze one you speak of is great for keeping key units off the table; and counting everything random as an automatic 6 with the primaris means running, charging, assault moving with jetbikes, and moving after shooting (including overwatch) gets me where I want to go that much more quickly.
And with the Hate Bringer coterie, shooting an enemy unit, then running towards another one, then being forced to charge that unit, allows for some really tricky tactics to damage multiple enemy units or get yourself nearer an objective. I'm thinking I need to get some ccw jetbikes in there instead of the Malevolents, to be faster and get my prince a better chance at Rampage with the smaller unit size.
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Post by Nick P on Jun 28, 2016 15:33:04 GMT -6
Went ahead and changed the list up - this list feels WAY more fluffy and fun, and feels like there's better synergy there. Let me know your thoughts, I plan on getting the bodies for this army off ebay here in the next week or so, so want to have it finalized.
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Post by 1D3chan on Jul 20, 2016 18:03:39 GMT -6
Went ahead and changed the list up - this list feels WAY more fluffy and fun, and feels like there's better synergy there. Let me know your thoughts, I plan on getting the bodies for this army off ebay here in the next week or so, so want to have it finalized. How did this list end up performing last night |
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Post by Nick P on Jul 21, 2016 7:30:39 GMT -6
It did pretty well - we ended up calling the game at 9:30pm, at the end of turn 3; I was winning 11-8, but if we had gone one more turn we did the math and Dennis would have tied it on his turn, and who knows what I would have been able to do after that.
The flyers were key, the warp hunters were key. The biker unit did its job pretty well, but isn't very survivable - First Rank/Second Rank on a couple units of simple guardsmen produced enough wounds to wipe them out, despite 3+ saves and a 2+ invuln on my baron. Still, they wiped out an entire blob squad in a single round of combat, which is surprising to me. Will need to be more careful with them in the future.
The army is fun to play, but the lack of lots of infantry units really throws you - especially when I was facing a blob guard army, I felt very overwhelmed. By the end of turn 3, all my infantry was dead - all I had were my warp hunters and flyers. While he was running low on anti-armor weaponry, I think he could have taken down one of the flyers and one of the warp hunters on his next turn, and then he would have been able to play board control with his blobs and control the movement of my tanks/flyers and grab all the objectives.
I think you brought up a good point about the bikes - they're kitted for combat, so the scatter lasers are less useful. I added them for some versatility, and so I could pump out S6 shots on my way into combat, but I can probably find a better use for those points.
Also, the Aethermancy powers are a lot of fun - lots of WC2, so tougher to cast, and my first cast caused my psyker to perils on their terrible, horrible unique perils table, but it was fun.
I think if I were going to make it more competitive I would drop the nightwing, drop the scatter lasers from the Felarch squad, and add another 4-5 scatter bikes on their own. The nightwing is great for air superiority, but jetbikes with 4 S6 shots each can deal some damage even without skyfire, and are more mobile and can hold objectives...
Oh and a lynx, because duh.
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Post by 1D3chan on Jul 21, 2016 12:58:06 GMT -6
Cool, good feedback.
It doesn't matter what anyone says about Jetbikes - for all of the flack they get, they are incredibly flimsy if they get out of position or over commit for board control. Multiply that by mediocre leadership and tiny squad size. Dumping a lot of points into them is risky, even with the Shadowfield. I think you'll be satisfied making the HQ guys just kitted out CC, like you said, and then having one or two squads of other bikes - maybe on with Scatters, maybe the other with something else like Splinters or Lances. I wouldn't do more than 2 squads because you have other infantry you need to spend points on.
Obviously you have a very low model count for 1850, even more so than Craftworld, which is just brought into focus more when you play a horde army.
I think you're definitely making a good call dropping one of the flyers, you really only need one for most games and you'd rather put the points in more bikes or like you said, another heavy hitter. If you take a Lynx and two Warp Hunters, you're capable of destroying literally anything in the game in one turn. It puts your list in a new tier IMO
I would recommend one Lynx, one Warp Hunter and 2 Hornets (lower price than one WH) while you drop one of the flyers. Still extremely competitive but not invincible. The Hornets are really fun units. They will have 8 Str 8 AP2 Shots, they can Flat Out 24" and still Snap Fire, and they always come in from reserves on a 2+, regardless of modifiers. plus they have Outflank and Scout, and 11 Armor really ups their survivability a lot compared to Vypers or Venoms or Land Speeders.
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Post by Nick P on Jul 21, 2016 14:45:38 GMT -6
I didn't realize hornets had that much firepower - 8 S8? I thought they just had 2 bright lances each - 4 shots total? 11 AV is clutch.
Yeah the 2 warp hunters was already overkill vs a non super-heavy, so in adding a Lynx I'm definitely going down to a single WH. As far as adding more units to the infantry, since the coterie is too restrictive (only 3 troops per), I can really only add either bikes, additional (wasted IMHO) balestrikes to a non-titan breakers coterie, or more MSU reaver squads (up to 2) to my Void Burners coterie. I think adding a bike squad or two to that coterie, allowing them to deep strike, reroll reserves, AND have a 4++ on the turn they arrive, would be clutch. Scatter bikes, Lance bikes, both would be filthy.
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Post by 1D3chan on Jul 21, 2016 16:35:46 GMT -6
I didn't realize hornets had that much firepower - 8 S8? I thought they just had 2 bright lances each - 4 shots total? 11 AV is clutch. Yeah the 2 warp hunters was already overkill vs a non super-heavy, so in adding a Lynx I'm definitely going down to a single WH. As far as adding more units to the infantry, since the coterie is too restrictive (only 3 troops per), I can really only add either bikes, additional (wasted IMHO) balestrikes to a non-titan breakers coterie, or more MSU reaver squads (up to 2) to my Void Burners coterie. I think adding a bike squad or two to that coterie, allowing them to deep strike, reroll reserves, AND have a 4++ on the turn they arrive, would be clutch. Scatter bikes, Lance bikes, both would be filthy. Hornets can be equipped with pretty much any heavy weapon option in the book, but the most common load-out is double Pulse Lasers. You sacrifice the "Lance" rule from BL but gain an extra two shots each, a pretty easy trade off in this edition. |
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Post by dennish on Jul 21, 2016 18:16:06 GMT -6
I'll just "First Rank - Second Rank Fire" everything!!!!!
Anyhow, against most meta armies your list should fare extremely well, especially the high strength weaponry. Let's just not blow ourselves up in the psychic phase anymore...waaaay to many 1's rolled our last game on bith sides.
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Post by Nick P on Jul 22, 2016 7:57:39 GMT -6
Haha seriously, the ones were out of control - more so for you than for me! Rolling 5 saves, and getting 4 1s??? That's some divine intervention level of dice rolling!
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