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Post by Joelercoaster on Jun 10, 2016 21:08:19 GMT -6
I was just lurking over at Warpshadow, because reasons, when I read something that should have been obvious a while ago.
What with the FAQ saying sky-firing units can target flyers and FMC's with blasts/templates now (which makes sense, so to speak, why would you not fire missiles at enemy craft? All of the movies do it), did the Harpy just match the Crone in terms of AA potential?
I'm talking the Heavy Venom Cannon here. You lose a lot on AP, and a bit on range, but it's otherwise a Lascannon-strength small blast (twin linked, on that platform). The Crone's extra-strong vector strike is cool, but often hard to pull off. It can vomit on flyers, but again the range is a limiting factor (granted, if you can pull off both on a flyer it's probably done for). So *mostly* this is comparing the "missiles" to the HVC in terms of AA potential.
Haywire is great, but you only get the four shots, and BS 3 is hurtful. A consistent, accurate (with TL) S9 hit may actually be enough to raise the bar here, not to mention you're saving what, 20 points from the base cost of the Crone? Although I guess the HVC upgrade does cost something. Not much, as I recall, but I never spent much time looking at the Harpy's profile.
Other than that they're pretty similar in stats. Harpy is a Hunter, I think, rather than Feeder? Which at least means you will still be shooting if you fail your Ld. And the bombs give you some versatility to boot.
Huh. Nifty?
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Post by 1D3chan on Jun 10, 2016 23:19:04 GMT -6
Battle Tome: Harpies out this Summer HYPE.  |
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Post by Nick P on Jun 11, 2016 8:21:26 GMT -6
Yeah I think you may be right dude, those TL S9 blasts are mathematically more reliable than haywire missiles at BS3, especially over a 6 turn game. Nice call!
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Post by Joelercoaster on Jun 11, 2016 17:18:24 GMT -6
I mean, really being able to shoot flyers/FMC's with skyfire blasts/templates is a pretty hefty change to a lot of units, it just so happens that the Harpy seems to be really enjoying this particular tidbit. If TL Dev's weren't just "the best", a Flyrant with an HVC to get a little extra oomph might be worth looking at. But TL Devs are just the best.
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Post by Nick P on Jun 12, 2016 8:30:32 GMT -6
Can a flyrant take 2 HVCs? That might be fun, like a super-harpy.
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Post by 1D3chan on Jun 12, 2016 14:48:50 GMT -6
What makes the Harpy's HVC count as Skyfire now? Do all FMC's have skyfire?
It seems like in Death From The Skies, units in the book are good at hitting either Air or Ground, and penalized for hitting the one they aren't good at. Does this apply to FMC's?
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Post by Joelercoaster on Jun 12, 2016 15:26:34 GMT -6
Fmc's are not touched in the new book, so continue to follow the rules in the core. To answer your question, yes,fmc's can opt to skyfire if they are swooping.
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Post by Nick P on Jun 13, 2016 6:31:10 GMT -6
What made the harpy good is that the Death from the Skies book clarified that now you can target flyers with blast/template weapons, assuming you have skyfire. AKA, flyers with missiles can now shoot them at other flyers. But also, FMCs that only have access to blast weaponry...like the harpy...can now take down flyers. So TL S9 blasts taking out AV10-12 flyers is going to be a thing.
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Post by Joelercoaster on Jun 13, 2016 7:19:31 GMT -6
Aye, now that I'm at my computer I can give a better answer (although Nick pretty much nailed it already).
Previously, as you couldn't touch flyers of any sort with blasts/templates (ever), the Harpy was dedicated anti-ground (with all blast weaponry, barring perhaps a few S5 shots) while the Crone - with its improved Vector Strike and haywire missiles - was our "answer" to anti-air. Plus, its drool cannon was a solid weapon to use against infantry and other ground targets, giving it some further utility. You could even buy it the same carapace weapons, I think, if you wanted.
Very largely the Harpy was ignored, as another anti-infantry platform just wasn't needed, and AA platforms very much were - as they come in the same slot, the Crone was hands down the winner.
With this single change, the Harpy can now play anti-air duty, and still has utility vs ground troops with its spore mines and such (and I guess it can vector strike too). Basically it turns both of them into fully usable units, each with slightly different strengths, and very similar costs... all in all, IMHO, an extremely good thing.
Further note - the Skyblight swarm was already arguably our strongest dataslate/formation... the "bad" part being the "harpy tax". Heh. "Tax".
Skyblight 4 lyfe?
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Post by Joelercoaster on Jun 13, 2016 7:51:33 GMT -6
So, thought.
Skyblight is around 600 for the core formation.
I think the cheapest Lictor shendig is 250 (5 Lictors).
I *think* after that you could squeeze another Tyrant, Terv/gaunts, and a Mawloc into a CAD. (shooting for 1500 here)
So, with a +1 to reserves, you have 3 broods of ObSec, recycling Gargoyles, and a Mawloc being homed in by 5 lictors spread across the board.
5 Flyers, all slightly utilitarian, become the general workhorse, while the Terv/termies provide a (hopefully) ever growing ground presence to poop on objectives and generally clog things up.
I mean, I definitely didn't *just* order enough parts to build two more flyers... at all... but the above actually seems... almost halfway viable? SO many flying MC's...
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Post by Nick P on Jun 13, 2016 11:42:45 GMT -6
I need some gargoyles, love the models but never really used them. 90 or so should do...
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Post by Joelercoaster on Jun 13, 2016 13:12:41 GMT -6
So my estimate was off, a "good" skyblight is 8-900 points... But still I think the general idea will be interesting.
I have just over 30 of the buggers, so enough for a light version... All metals, of course... Uff. But that's enough for a start.
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Post by 1D3chan on Jun 13, 2016 21:47:46 GMT -6
Jeff rest in peace used a skyblight formation against me, it was nasty sauce.
Does the Eldar Hemlock Wraithfighter have skyfire now? It has dedicated small blast D Weapons. I don't know what class it is.
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Post by Joelercoaster on Jun 14, 2016 6:46:46 GMT -6
Previously it definitely did, however the blasts could not target fliers so it was moot. Now it just depends on the role, as only fighters gain it.
My guess is it would not be listed as dedicated anti air, but you never know.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 14, 2016 7:24:50 GMT -6
Hemlock is an Attack Craft, so it doesn't come with skyfire on its weapons stock. However, in the dog fight phase it is possible for an attack craft to fire at full BS (I.E. fire those blasts) if it out maneuvers the opponent.
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