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Post by Deleted on Oct 30, 2015 12:04:19 GMT -6
With the new Kauyon supplement release, the Ravenguard received their own Decurion style detatchment. I've played around with several versions of my Raptors list, but this is by far my favorite to date. The list has a ton of mobility, can effectively remove a variety of units, and generally looks like a lot of fun. Let me know what you think of it.
Talon Strike Force Detachment (1500pts)
Extensive Planning - If the Warlord is in this detachment you can re-roll Mission, Deployment, and/or Who goes first.
Know When to Strike - Can roll for reserves on turn 1, units come in on a 4+.
Know When to Fade - Can always choose to fail morale checks.
Pinion Demi-Company Formation
Scout support - Each Scout Sergeant can spot for another unit from the formation within 9" granting it ignores cover until the end of the phase.
Wayfinders - Each scout/scout bike squad can lead another unit in reserve (from this formation) onto the battlefield when it enters from reserve. This includes outflanking. They both arrive at the same time and the unit being led gains stealth so long as it is within 9" of the scouting unit.
Captain [Combi-Plasma, Boltpistol] - Warlord (Strategic Traits)
Company Command Squad [4x Veterans (Plasma Gun), 1x Apothecary, Rhino]
Devastator Squad [4x Space Marines (Lascannon), Space Marine Sergeant (Signum)]
Assault Squad [2x Space Marines (Flamer, Jump Pack), 2x Space Marines (Jump Pack), Space Marine Sergeant (Jump Pack)]
Tactical Squad [3x Space Marines, 1x Space Marine (Meltagun), Space Marine Sergeant (Combi-melta), Rhino]
Tactical Squad [3x Space Marines, 1x Space Marine (Meltagun), Space Marine Sergeant (Combi-melta), Rhino]
Tactical Squad [3x Space Marines, 1x Space Marine (Meltagun), Space Marine Sergeant (Combi-melta), Rhino]
Scout Squad [4x Scouts, 1x Scout Sergeant]
Scout Squad [4x Scouts, 1x Scout Sergeant]
Scout Squad [4x Scouts, 1x Scout Sergeant]
Scout Squad [4x Scouts, 1x Scout Sergeant]
Scout Squad [4x Scouts, 1x Scout Sergeant]
Raptor Wing Formation
Incoming support - The Stormtalons arrive automatically in turn 2 if not already on the board.
Priority Target Received - A Land Speeder in the formation can nominate an enemy unit in 18" and LoS as a priority target. Until this unit is destroyed or another is nominated, the stormtalons get re-rolls to wound and to pen against the target.
Land Speeder Squadron [1x Land Speeder (Heavy Flamer, Multi-Melta)]
Stormtalon [1x Storm Talon (Twin-Linked Assault Cannon, Skyhammer Missile Launcher)]
Stormtalon [1x Storm Talon (Twin-Linked Assault Cannon, Skyhammer Missile Launcher)]
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Post by theknightmantis on Oct 30, 2015 22:06:03 GMT -6
It looks solid. On one hand you no longer have the metric ass ton of Sternguard but I think it is worth the trade offs.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 30, 2015 22:17:57 GMT -6
It looks solid. On one hand you no longer have the metric ass ton of Sternguard but I think it is worth the trade offs. I really tried to fit them in, but inevitably I decided they wouldn't bring that much to the table I couldn't provide better with the Command Squad. I never knew the Command Squad was so good, its kind of shameful I was so ignorant of the fact that they could take any special weapon... |
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Post by 1D3chan on Oct 31, 2015 11:52:44 GMT -6
With the new Kauyon supplement release, the Ravenguard received their own Decurion style detatchment. I've played around with several versions of my Raptors list, but this is by far my favorite to date. The list has a ton of mobility, can effectively remove a variety of units, and generally looks like a lot of fun. Let me know what you think of it.
Talon Strike Force DetachmentExtensive Planning - If the Warlord is in this detachment you can re-roll Mission, Deployment, and/or Who goes first.
Know When to Strike - Can roll for reserves on turn 1, units come in on a 4+.
Know When to Fade - can always choose to fail morale checks. Pinion Demi-Company Formation
Scout support - Each Scout Sergeant can spot for another unit from the formation within 9" granting it ignores cover until the end of the phase.
Wayfinders - Each scout/scout bike squad can lead another unit in reserve (from this formation) onto the battlefield when it enters from reserve. This includes outflanking. They both arrive at the same time and the unit being led gains stealth so long as it is within 9" of the scouting unit. Captain [Ex Tenebris, Chainsword] - Warlord Ex Tenebris is a Stormbolter with an extra shot and rending. Company Command Squad [4x Veterans (Plasma Gun, Bolt Pistol), Apothecary (Narthecium, Bolt Pistol, Chainsword), Rhino (Storm Bolter)] The Captain joins the Command Squad. The unit embarks their rhino and outflanks utilizing the Wayfinders rule to get within 12" of a TEQ, MC, or other prime target. With the ignore cover Special rule provided by Scout Support the unit can easily remove most non-vehicle threats very effectively. Devastator Squad [4x Space Marines (Lascannon), Space Marine Sergeant (Boltgun, Bolt Pistol, Signum)] The Devastators deploy in cover, using their chapter tactics to gain a 2+ cover save. Then using the Scout Support rule to ignore cover, they target prime armored targets. Assault Squad [2x Space Marines (Chainsword, Flamer, Jump Pack), 2x Space Marines (Chainsword, Bolt Pistol, Jump Pack), Space Marine Sergeant (Chainsword, Bolt Pistol, Jump Pack)] The Assault squad Deep Strikes behind enemy lines to provide fire power with their flamers, and to add the pressure of assault. Tactical Squad [3x Space Marines (Boltgun), 1x Space Marine (Meltagun, Bolt Pistol), Space Marine Sergeant (Combi-melta, Bolt Pistol), Rhino (Storm Bolter)] Tactical Squad [3x Space Marines (Boltgun), 1x Space Marine (Meltagun, Bolt Pistol), Space Marine Sergeant (Combi-melta, Bolt Pistol), Rhino (Storm Bolter)] The Tactical squads mounted in Rhinos outflank to claim objectives and remove armor. Tactical Squad [3x Space Marines (Boltgun), 1x Space Marine (Gravgun, Bolt Pistol), Space Marine Sergeant (Boltgun, Bolt Pistol)] The Tactical squad with out a transport stands on back field objectives, using its gravgun to remove Deep Striking threats. Scout Squad [4x Scouts (Boltgun), Scout Sergeant (Boltgun, Bolt Pistol)] Scout Squad [4x Scouts (Boltgun), Scout Sergeant (Boltgun, Bolt Pistol)] Scout Squad [4x Scouts (Boltgun), Scout Sergeant (Boltgun, Bolt Pistol)] Scout Squad [4x Scouts (Boltgun), Scout Sergeant (Boltgun, Bolt Pistol)] The Scouts sole purpose in the list is to provide the Scout Support rule to other units, and to outflank using the Wayfinders rule. After arriving to the battlefield they target lightly armored units with rapid fire bolters, or target MEQs using their Legendary Marksman rule to gain rending. Raptor Wing Formation Incoming support - The Stormtalons arrive automatically in turn 2 if not already on the board.
Priority Target Received - A Land Speeder in the formation can nominate an enemy unit in 18" and LoS as a priority target. Until this unit is destroyed or another is nominated, the stormtalons get re-rolls to wound and to pen against the target. Land Speeder Squdron [3x Land Speeders (Heavy Flamer, Multi-Melta)] The Land Speeders Deep Strike behind enemy lines to remove armor with their MMs, or entrenched units with their Heavy Flamers. Stormtalon [1x Storm Talon (Twin-Linked Assault Cannon, Skyhammer Missile Launcher)] Stormtalon [1x Storm Talon (Twin-Linked Assault Cannon, Skyhammer Missile Launcher)] The Storm Talons utilized their high mobility to eliminate Priority Targets through weight of fire.
This list looks like a lot of fun. The Raven Guard Decurion Rules are really good - I like to think of it as every unit having a kind of 'pseudo hit-and-run' which is fluffy and very tactical, because it's awesome to get out of combats you don't want to want to be in, especially on a more tactical turn (choose to tie up an enemy for their shooting phase, or let go of them for your shooting phase). It's extremely mobile, and so far I've found that mobility is probably the most important factor in competitive lists, for all types of missions. I think this is why, right now, Gunline armies are amongst the most disadvantaged in the game, and one of the reasons I'm not as concerned about the Tidewall or the Stormsurge (not to say there aren't very good mobile options in that army, too). I think that the main challenge of this army will positioning the scouts with the units you want them to help, as most of those units are mechanized in your list and the scouts are not. 9" is good but it's not a ton. Then of course, you have to keep them alive, most notably the sergeant, not the whole squad. Deployment and plan is always important but in this list, more than the others. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 31, 2015 12:18:13 GMT -6
I've considered changing the three scout squads that escort the rhino's to scout bike squads for this very reason. I was concerned initially about the durability of scout bikes, but looking over the rules again, I've just realized scout bikes have a 3+ armor save. Which means they are in every way superior to regular scouts, looks like I'll be changing that in the list. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 30, 2015 15:59:20 GMT -6
I've since learned I made a grave mistake. In the Pinion Formation scout bikers can outflank just like regular scouts, however, the bikes cannot give ignores cover. For that reason I'm moving back to my original plan of scouts rather then scout bikers.
The big question I have is what do I build to get to 1850? I could take another Raptor Wing to bring 4 stormtalons to the table, which certainly seems overwhelming, or I could nab a CAD with a librarian to bring some psychic support. Any thoughts?
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dex
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Post by dex on Nov 30, 2015 16:34:44 GMT -6
Can you repost where the list is now?
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Post by Deleted on Nov 30, 2015 16:44:32 GMT -6
I had been updating in the OP, but here it is again:
Talon Strike Force Detachment (1500pts)
Pinion Demi-Company Formation
Captain [Combi-Plasma, Boltpistol] - Warlord (Strategic Traits)
Company Command Squad [4x Veterans (Plasma Gun), 1x Apothecary, Rhino]
Devastator Squad [4x Space Marines (Lascannon), Space Marine Sergeant (Signum)]
Assault Squad [2x Space Marines (Flamer, Jump Pack), 2x Space Marines (Jump Pack), Space Marine Sergeant (Jump Pack)]
Tactical Squad [3x Space Marines, 1x Space Marine (Meltagun), Space Marine Sergeant (Combi-melta), Rhino]
Tactical Squad [3x Space Marines, 1x Space Marine (Meltagun), Space Marine Sergeant (Combi-melta), Rhino]
Tactical Squad [3x Space Marines, 1x Space Marine (Meltagun), Space Marine Sergeant (Combi-melta), Rhino]
Scout Squad [4x Scouts, 1x Scout Sergeant]
Scout Squad [4x Scouts, 1x Scout Sergeant]
Scout Squad [4x Scouts, 1x Scout Sergeant]
Scout Squad [4x Scouts, 1x Scout Sergeant]
Scout Squad [4x Scouts, 1x Scout Sergeant]
Raptor Wing Formation
Land Speeder Squadron [1x Land Speeder (Heavy Flamer, Multi-Melta)]
Stormtalon [1x Storm Talon (Twin-Linked Assault Cannon, Skyhammer Missile Launcher)]
Stormtalon [1x Storm Talon (Twin-Linked Assault Cannon, Skyhammer Missile Launcher)]
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dex
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Post by dex on Dec 1, 2015 10:38:10 GMT -6
I like it I just worry about having the firepower to shift other MSU off the table
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Post by Deleted on Dec 1, 2015 10:42:54 GMT -6
I like it I just worry about having the firepower to shift other MSU off the table I'm hoping the the ignores cover on pretty much everything but the scouts will really help to peel units of the board. I also hope the null-deployment alpha strike granted by everything outflanking will cripple other MSU enough to prevent a serious counter attack. The option to come in turn 1 or 2 and the ability to re-roll who goes first gives me a fairly good chance of pulling the alpha strike off. Any lists you think I'd struggle against alot? |
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dex
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Post by dex on Dec 1, 2015 11:49:08 GMT -6
Space Marines MSU, Tau MSU. The lack of AP3 to combine with the ignore cover is really my biggest concern. I think you roflstomp anything that is not MEU or TEU, but get out MSU'd by them. I would be more than happy to play a few matches against you if you want to tighten it all it up.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 1, 2015 12:14:31 GMT -6
Space Marines MSU, Tau MSU. The lack of AP3 to combine with the ignore cover is really my biggest concern. I think you roflstomp anything that is not MEU or TEU, but get out MSU'd by them. I would be more than happy to play a few matches against you if you want to tighten it all it up. Hmmm MEQs, I honestly thought MEQs would be one of the armies I performed strongest against. Rending on ignore's cover bolters gives me a decent ability to remove power armor, and I think I bring a ton of anti-armor to deal with battle companies. In particular I think the command squad has the ability to completely remove any PA unit i want with their 5 plasmaguns and ignores cover. Where specifically do you think I'd struggle? Bike marines could be hard just because of T5, but that is the only marines I immediately think "ouch" about. Tau are definitely my hardest opponent. With so much interceptor and split fire they can easily counter my alpha strike, while storm surges and riptides are really hard to remove. What's an effective way to counter Tau with marines? I'd be down to play sometime, I'm still building the army atm, but I hope to have it at full strength by mid-December. |
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dex
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Post by dex on Dec 1, 2015 12:19:12 GMT -6
We could proxy or I could lend you some. Are all the Bolters rending? I like the First turn outflanking, thats clutch
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Post by Deleted on Dec 1, 2015 12:32:58 GMT -6
Are all the Bolters rending? I like the First turn outflanking, that is clutch All of them are rending if you treat them as heavy 1, so it's not *Super* great but it is an option. Yeah, the best part about the rule that lets you come in turn 1 in my opinion is that you have the choice to try and come in or not. Lets you juke drop pods or the like if need be, or just make you opponent uneasy because they don't know when or where you'll come in from. All I have left to build is three scout squads, a storm talon, and a rhino. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 10, 2015 10:26:18 GMT -6
Finally got a game in with my Raptors vs. Craig's Nids. There were a few times the dice gods were on my side, but I still think I got a good feel for the list. - The ability to re-roll who goes first is probably the single most important rule I bring to the table. It let me re-roll my 2, for a 5 which gave me first turn and let me alpha strike hard.
- Lascannon Devastators w/ Ignores cover are, well, devastating. Total kill count was: T1 - Flyrant warlord, T2 - 1 Wound on a 2nd Flyrant, T3 - Two Hive Guard, T4 A Lictor, T5 A Venomthrope. All in all they are a really versatile unit capable of removing most targets.
- Scouts are awesome, the move through cover really lets them jet around, even on foot. If your opponent takes out the sergeants though, the ability to ignore cover for the rest of your army collpases.
- Know When to Fade is a hell of a lot more useful then I thought it would be. I used it regularly to move my units back into cover after they outflanked. It was particularly helpful for saving my warlord from a hungry pack of lictors.
- The ability to bring in my reserves on T1 was huge. I got lucky and brought in everything but my assault marines and one of the storm talons on the first turn. Combined with the outflanking it lets you put a lot of special weapon pressure on the opponent turn 1.
- The Legendary Markmanship part of the Raptors chapter tactics never came up. I seemed to always have better targets for my bolters if I rapid fired.
- Meltaguns vs. Tyranids are virtually useless.
- Similarly, Sniper rifles on scouts are just not very effective. I think over the entire course of the game I killed one hormagaunt with the snipers.
All in all I had a great time playing the army.
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