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Post by kingwalnut on Feb 13, 2019 7:49:19 GMT -6
Another thing I think REALLY needs clarification is the Talisman of the Voidwyrm or whatever it is called. Not being overwatch is cool, but the other effects states it get +1 to saves against ranged weapons. If that applies to invulnerable saves as well, that could be big for the Patriarch Cover specifies armor saves right? And I'm only halfway sure- but I'd use that as the point of reference. In the codex, it just says "saving throws against ranged weapons". An invuln save is technically a saving throw. I feel it is very vaguely worded
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Post by Eric formerly Eric on Feb 13, 2019 8:25:38 GMT -6
Yes it definitely means all saving throws.
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Post by Eric formerly Eric on Feb 13, 2019 8:42:10 GMT -6
Another idea is a simple CP battalion for a main nid force. 3 units of neophytes, a magus and iconward are 283. Especially for a shooty nid army (think hive guard, exocrines, etc), these guys can be the ultimate screen. Id even throw in a nexos for some minor screening trickery and extra cp. 333 points for 5 command points, extra on 6s and a solid screen that CC units cant move close to in t1.
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Post by ocotako7 on Feb 13, 2019 8:42:46 GMT -6
Cover specifies armor saves right? And I'm only halfway sure- but I'd use that as the point of reference. In the codex, it just says "saving throws against ranged weapons". An invuln save is technically a saving throw. I feel it is very vaguely worded Protect/Jink is worded similarly in the Eldar codex and it does in fact apply to both invulnerable and armor saves.
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Post by kingwalnut on Feb 13, 2019 9:00:33 GMT -6
In the codex, it just says "saving throws against ranged weapons". An invuln save is technically a saving throw. I feel it is very vaguely worded Protect/Jink is worded similarly in the Eldar codex and it does in fact apply to both invulnerable and armor saves. Hmmmmmmm
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Post by Nick P on Feb 13, 2019 14:28:00 GMT -6
The 40k errata/FAQ specifically says that +1 to saves DOES include invuln saves unless specifically mentioned otherwise, such as with cover. So it 100% works that way, which is great news.
Personally I think we have a lot of crazy leadership shenanigans. I think a patriarch, with the book warlord trait for +1 LD, plus a clamavus for +1 LD, casting Mental Onslaught against anything will be fucking terrifying. Hell, if you can get a couple of -1 to LD on the enemy target (not impossible to do) you can be auto-killing something with LD8 or 9, which is insane.
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Post by kingwalnut on Feb 13, 2019 15:18:45 GMT -6
The 40k errata/FAQ specifically says that +1 to saves DOES include invuln saves unless specifically mentioned otherwise, such as with cover. So it 100% works that way, which is great news. Personally I think we have a lot of crazy leadership shenanigans. I think a patriarch, with the book warlord trait for +1 LD, plus a clamavus for +1 LD, casting Mental Onslaught against anything will be fucking terrifying. Hell, if you can get a couple of -1 to LD on the enemy target (not impossible to do) you can be auto-killing something with LD8 or 9, which is insane. Oh SHIT! I completely forgot about the +1 Ld generic warlord trait!!! It is gonna be a toss up between that and Preternatural Speed. Getting a +1 on that dice off will be huge, but a Patriarch who always swings first is pretty dangerous. ......I might have to do the +1 Ld trait. If you get Super, Gamey, Sweaty, Tryhard, there is a way to guaranteed auto kill a knight. Taken from 1d4Chan: "Mental Onslaught, on a Patriarch (Ld10), with the relic the crouchling (+1 to cast) with all of the Leadership buffs present, has Ld 13 from the Warlord trait Inspiring Presence (+1Ld within 6") a clamavus (+1Ld within 6"), an Iconward with Deliverance broodsurge relic (+1Ld within 6"). Place a Locus nearby the Knight, for -1 Ld within 6". Cast Terrifying Visions from an Astropath for another -2 Leadership on the Knight. That's down to Leadership 6. If you roll a 1 for your roll-off test, you obtain a 14. If they roll a 6, they obtain a 12. This means you have beaten their Ld, you deal a Mortal wound, and roll off again. With three casts and a trio of STRONG support heroes, you can instantly kill a Knight Castellan without them making a saving throw. this give you a little flexibility for something to go a stray. They just have to hope they managed to deny the powers."
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jesse
neophyte
Posts: 732
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Post by jesse on Feb 13, 2019 15:39:37 GMT -6
And that's why every army needs to have snipers.
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Post by kingwalnut on Feb 13, 2019 15:52:53 GMT -6
I think Mental Onslaught is gonna get errata'd or something. It won't be an issue for our games, but that combo at tournaments might be strong if people decide to try and do that.
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Post by ocotako7 on Feb 13, 2019 16:33:50 GMT -6
Theres a lot that has to happen for that to go off though, so I think there is some counterplay involved, particularly in positioning. But of all the mind-war type powers, mental onslaught is def the strongest.
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Post by Joelercoaster on Feb 13, 2019 18:24:47 GMT -6
What's the WC for all those powers? And even if you look at the minimum viable stuff (aura auto buffs/debuffs and the single power) you're looking at what, essentially a +3 to your roll vs your opponent? Pretty easy to scrape some work away.
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Post by admirablegoal on Feb 13, 2019 20:42:52 GMT -6
What's the WC for all those powers? And even if you look at the minimum viable stuff (aura auto buffs/debuffs and the single power) you're looking at what, essentially a +3 to your roll vs your opponent? Pretty easy to scrape some work away. Trephination is WC 7. I believe Mind War is also WC 7. I think Psychic Scourge is WC 6.
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Post by ocotako7 on Feb 13, 2019 21:22:53 GMT -6
Mirror of minds is also WC 7. Farseers have runes of witnessing to help them cast, and can have similar leadership shennanigans with hemlocks and warlock powers, but its only 1 roll and a mortal wound for each one you exceed it by.
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