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Post by Nick P on May 30, 2014 7:42:51 GMT -6
Yeah but at the same time, no one relies on poison to kill marines reliably, not even Dark Eldar (thanks dissie cannons!).
In terms of super scoring land raiders, are we sure that's a thing? I don't have the rulebook in front of me, but I thought it was only dedicated transports that get Objective Secured...and it specifically says that if a transport is in its own slot in the army book that it counts as that slot.
So even if a land raider is taken as a transport for tactical marines (also a terrible way to use a 250 point assault vehicle fyi), it still wouldn't count as Troops since it has its own Heavy Slot? Or something. I thought the wording was tricky, so maybe I'm wrong?
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Post by Matt W. on May 30, 2014 8:10:00 GMT -6
Hypothetically it could be for Black Templar Space Marine armies.
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Post by Deleted on May 30, 2014 12:33:37 GMT -6
I believe its possible with dark angel deathwing to get troop landraiders.
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cj
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Post by cj on May 30, 2014 14:32:35 GMT -6
all land raiders are dedicated transport for blood angels
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mike
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Post by mike on May 31, 2014 21:52:02 GMT -6
yeah if you take dw as troops, they have the option to take a dw land raider as a dt.
for dark eldar it looks like duke lists have been buffed significantly now that you can deep strike at cruising speed and jink doesn't make passengers snap shoot. gun boats for the win. at least until someone drops a flame template on them.
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Post by Joelercoaster on Jun 1, 2014 7:44:06 GMT -6
Wouldn't DS at combat speed be better, as you could disembark/fire at full BS? Unless either of those rules have changed (I haven't really read the rulebook in full... at all...).
I do like that Jinking is "free" for the passengers (although I guess that deserves a "still"), and it may bring back the all purpose Raider... cannon, blaster, maybe even a Sybarite. More expensive by a chunk, but allows the squad to deal with a wide range of targets, whether or not the vehicle can add its firepower. Plus the Syb's Ld boost is good for all of those Pens you take that (somehow) don't blow you up.
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mike
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Post by mike on Jun 1, 2014 11:58:37 GMT -6
Yeah, it's definitely combat speed. You get to fire at full BS without disembarking. The 4+ jink and less explosion prone vehicles and the removal of reserve limits make it look really effective to me. I'm even thinking of taking splinter racks.
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Post by jason on Jun 1, 2014 18:41:50 GMT -6
Yeah but at the same time, no one relies on poison to kill marines reliably, not even Dark Eldar (thanks dissie cannons!). Well for Black Legion with the VOTLW tax, it made Plagues to accompany Typhus in a Land Raider a pretty damn nasty assault unit for the points, and IMO more worthwhile than Berzerkers with re-roll to hit and wound and able to take back a pretty hard punch. Oh well. Honestly demonology (within reason) far outweighs the negatives Chaos got in 7th, and makes for a much more fluffy and therefore fun army. And makes me thrilled I cleaned out NDG of Daemons at the end.
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Post by Nick P on Jun 2, 2014 9:30:52 GMT -6
On the psychic phase:
Powers have been MUCH more difficult to cast than I would have thought, and thus far have been extremely underwhelming. In the 3000 point game we played on Friday, the farseer (under Josh Rs control) only cast...3 powers? In a 6 turn game. It wasn't even the deny dice that made the difference - reaching the casting cost on WC 1 and 2 spells was just a lot more difficult than it should be statistically.
There's a lot of variability in psychic powers, from the number of dice we get, to the results of the dice rolls, to the results of the deny dice...certainly very different from the previous 6 editions of the game.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 2, 2014 13:26:16 GMT -6
The weekend 7th Ed came out I got in my first game. My friend Brian fielded a Daemon army with some insane amount of psychic powers. Though I did shut down some of his stuff with my lowly librarian, I also managed to Perils twice in a 6 turn game and got no powers off.
As far as how my Dark Angels fared, well... I still got crushed. But with the new missions I did acrue a bunch of objectives/VPs early on which gave me the illusion of "doing okay". I reflected after the game about what did well and what didn't and feel like I would have to paint a whole new Dark Angels force in order to maximize the most advantageous boosts 7th has to offer. Deathwing will likely supplant Ravenwing as the most effective build out of the book.
I did spot that putting a Deathwing Termie squad in a Landraider of some type with an AM Priest would be hard as fuck with all the re-rolls that little 25 point fucker offers. Assault termies or Deathwing Knights could be serious
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Post by jason on Jun 2, 2014 19:35:36 GMT -6
On the psychic phase: Powers have been MUCH more difficult to cast than I would have thought, and thus far have been extremely underwhelming. In the 3000 point game we played on Friday, the farseer (under Josh Rs control) only cast...3 powers? In a 6 turn game. It wasn't even the deny dice that made the difference - reaching the casting cost on WC 1 and 2 spells was just a lot more difficult than it should be statistically. There's a lot of variability in psychic powers, from the number of dice we get, to the results of the dice rolls, to the results of the deny dice...certainly very different from the previous 6 editions of the game. Interesting. Would you consider a small amount of psykers for defensive purposes necessary?
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Post by Nick P on Jun 2, 2014 19:52:42 GMT -6
It really depends; one psyker is not really going to cast or deny well, especially up against a handful of psykers and reliably more dice. My nids will be interesting; have yet to play with them in the new edition, but I would imagine that the difficulty in casting powers is mitigated somewhat by the amount of extra dice I'll have (a guaranteed +6).
Basically, if you planned on bringing psykers anyways (demons, nids, grey knights, thousand sons), you'll have good offense and defense. Outside of that you'll have to specifically build for psychic potency.
Its very similar to the other phases in that you have to focus on it if you want to be good at it. You can bring a shooty army, but it won't be assaulty. You can bring an assaulty army, but its rarely shooty. Now you can bring a psychic army, but it will probably suffer in the other two areas of the game, and vice versa.
EDIT: the game is basically the Tri-Force now
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Post by Joelercoaster on Jun 2, 2014 20:04:43 GMT -6
In the one game I've played with Nids, making me an uncontested master at everything about them, I would say you can expect to cast one power with each of your psyker-bugs. If you have one that's particularly useful, you may skew things in favor of casting a bunch off of it, but that's about the average to expect. Warp Lance proved to be annoyingly impotent, on the whole, with the massive amount of dice necessary to get it off. le sigh.
Interestingly enough, bringing more psykers runs into diminishing returns. Especially as each of our bugs will be toting at least 2 powers, and will be bringing one, *maybe* two dice to the field... bringing more brains is really just opening up the potential well-of-spells at your disposal. Hoping for multiple Catalysts so you can protect key units, or enough Horror to shut down the enemy long enough to get in their face. It also starts to show when you get to Deny your opponent.
Summoning deamons is going to be the winner of all things Psykic, as you just generate more dice as the game goes on. Crazy.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 2, 2014 20:14:09 GMT -6
Summoning deamons is going to be the winner of all things Psykic, as you just generate more dice as the game goes on. Crazy. Now I have to both agree, and disagree. Daemons of Tzeentch who summon daemons of Tzeentch are the hands down master of magic. That being said, I think One Warp Charge spell spam is the secret to every other army. While looking into CSMs again I ran alot of numbers on psykers, so as to get an idea of what to take with a sorcerer. In the end I strongly feel that a Mastery Level 3 psyker with 4 spells that cost one charge sees the most successes and adds the most usefulness to a unit he joins.
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Post by Matt W. on Jun 2, 2014 20:25:38 GMT -6
I love the phase, the difficulty in getting powers off makes them much more vital and important when they do. If not overdone (IE TAKE ALL THE PYSKERS) It will be a fun phase. If you spam it to death we will have to smother you with a pillow.
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