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Post by Eric formerly Eric on Apr 24, 2018 10:26:00 GMT -6
Ok so the big FAQ and Beta Reserves Rule have had quite an impact on nids lists- in theory.
Before I get to reserves, i also want to point out that the smite rule might hurt armies heavy on zoans/neuros/other psychers. This was never a problem for me, as i loved using nid powers like onslaught, catalyst, and the horror.
Reserves:
Obviously it's tough having to wait til t2. Many of our best combos use DS, like flyrants, trygon tunnels with devil bombs or stealers, gargoyles with swarmy-pod, mawloc, etc.
But because DS was the meta, i had plenty of other armies countering me with their own alpha/beta strike. Now, nobody can do that.
I think the bigger issues are:
1. Swarmy can't move units that came in from deepstrike. It's not necessary, but it was a clutch strategy for pulling off a massive charge. It didn't matter as much for me as behemoth, because I got free rerolls.
2. Power level restrictions for reserves. I think this one is actually pretty brutal. If anything, i think gw will scrap this rule. This makes it very difficult to run an effective deep strike assault strategy relies on lots of charging units, since the 8/9" is unlikely. However, 2 trygon tunnels with 16 stealers each is 50 power level. For a 2000 point game, that's likely all the deep striking I can take. So it's def gonna be tough, and we will have to exhibit goofy builds to get around PL (like 11-man gant squads or 15 stealers rather than 16)
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Post by Eric formerly Eric on Apr 24, 2018 10:31:24 GMT -6
I Still think we can make deepstrike assault it work, and one of the keys will be clearly midfield chaff t1.
I have now switched out my devilbomb for genestealers in a trygon tunnel. Instead, i am starting two mixed gant groups on the table. If my opponent has a layer of light bodies up front, the gants can clear them out. If my opponent instead has something heavier up front that the gants can't clear, then that's a perfect target for the trygon/genestealer bomb.
Now, we don't have too much long range anti-infantry. So if my opponent has locked down their backfield with bodies, i won't be able to put a trygon back there. But this strategy at least allows me to gain the midboard.
The list I tried last week had a bunch of artillery/shooty units on the board with 2 trygon/genestealer bombs.
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doubleback
novice
I rock harder than most, yet less hard than some.
Posts: 1,262 
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Post by doubleback on Apr 24, 2018 11:07:36 GMT -6
Just my two cents, I liked your list a lot. I think, baring the few things we talked about, you had the right mix of melee and fire support. Had I not had full back field control, and had your genestealers not been forced to charge into what was essentially two brick walls, then I think their effect would have been devastating. Had you been fighting my Orks or Necrons I think that might have been the game.
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Post by kingwalnut on Apr 24, 2018 12:09:36 GMT -6
Battlescribe updated for me today and I just got done re-making my lists. I agree with everything, the reserves rule change really impacts how my sub-2000 pts. lists work. At 2000 pts, I can still DS a ton of useful stuff.
I think one of the keys for Nids T1 (that want to DS), is to really prepare to weather the storm. Use cover even more and Venomthropes/Malanthropes might become more useful just because they might help us shrug off some T1 fire. Waiting until T2 also opens the possibility of getting deeper in their lines.
Deepstriking on T1 usually meant hitting them in their deployment formation, which could be difficult a times. If someone goes first T1 and T2, they might charge forward with some of their forces and leave room for Flyrants/Devilbombs to flank their armor/leadership.
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Post by Eric formerly Eric on Apr 24, 2018 12:37:08 GMT -6
Yep, totally what i thought as well.
In practice, i found that we don't have too much long range anti infantry. So if they don't move forward, we probably can't ds into their backfield. But in that case, we will have better board control and can take the midfield.
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Post by Nick P on Apr 24, 2018 13:20:28 GMT -6
I just want GW to get hive guard back in stock so I can rock out with 2x6 units of them and grab another exocrine and start playing a true gunline Nid army, I think it could be really good!
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jesse
neophyte
Posts: 732
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Post by jesse on Apr 24, 2018 13:57:56 GMT -6
A gunline Nid army is very scary.
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Post by Eric formerly Eric on Apr 24, 2018 14:25:16 GMT -6
I will keep experimenting with melee/deepstriking builds. That's def what i love most nids anyway.
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Post by Eric formerly Eric on Apr 24, 2018 14:26:18 GMT -6
A gunline Nid army is very scary. Yep. My venomcannon carnifexes with spores outshot Jesse's predators. |
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Post by kingwalnut on Apr 24, 2018 14:46:20 GMT -6
I also think Tyranid players will have to start playing their Termagants KNOWING they will die. Not like "well maybe if my devilgaunts can get into range it will hurt", but like 50/50 fleshborer/devourer mix to screen for the bigger stuff.
I also love Nidzilla so maybe that is just me.
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zyggy
initiate
Posts: 242
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Post by zyggy on Apr 24, 2018 14:53:25 GMT -6
I still believe that a full squad of termagants with devourers is pound for pound the best horde shooting in the game right now. 90 shots hitting on 4s that re-roll 1s to wound (And hit if you bring a tervigon) is stronger than guard fire, but more accurate than orks, and all for only 240 points.
Getting them all in range might be tricky, but the results are face melting!
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Post by kingwalnut on Apr 24, 2018 15:19:45 GMT -6
I agree about the horde shooting. A devilgaunt bomb is terrifyingly effective against infantry, but getting them that close is now a lot harder as you can spread out some units to deny the DS Devilgaunt bomb. And slogging them upfield will let them get peppered by a lot of fire if there isn't cover.
Still super effective, but harder to use.
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Post by Eric formerly Eric on Apr 24, 2018 15:42:20 GMT -6
Yeah. at the moment, I'm swapping the bomb for a 50/50 mix on the table. My malanthrope may keep them company, and i can always catalyst them if needed.
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Post by Eric formerly Eric on Apr 24, 2018 15:43:45 GMT -6
So hive guard are def our mvps on most tables. 36" isn't enough on a hammer and anvil table to go toe-to-toe against gunlines.
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Post by kingwalnut on Apr 24, 2018 15:58:10 GMT -6
I don't own any Hive Guard ;_;
I'm torn between getting Hive Guard or indulge my dream of working towards running 6 Carnifex on the table and I only have so much time and money. I know Hive Guard are the better option, but I love the image of a wedge of Carnifex storming up the board.
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