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Post by Joelercoaster on Sept 5, 2016 15:02:55 GMT -6
That's what kills me - 200 points, but full squads? It just leads to incredibly limited builds.
The original KT (esque? may have been called something else) let you cherry-pick single models from different units, so you could build your own Last Chancers style force.
That said, I think the format is a cool skirmish-style break from huge 40k. Love the idea and would be definitely interested in trying out some games.
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Kill team
Sept 5, 2016 16:50:15 GMT -6
via mobile
Post by rogerspacem on Sept 5, 2016 16:50:15 GMT -6
Herald of ruins did what you describe, with some added benefits. Yeah man I think Eric (tyranids) is asking to play. But it's still fun. Though the developers were nice to add in variant rules and missions for you to experiment with. In the end they just said have fun with it and make up rules. I think they did the full squad structure in anticipation for 8th edition cause if they change the structure to be like AOS then it fits fine.
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Post by Joelercoaster on Sept 5, 2016 16:56:22 GMT -6
The longer I play, the longer I feel like GW is taking its primary ideas from Who's Line... the rules are made up, and the points don't matter xD
Plus side, as is I could run Corsairs in GW's Kill Team. HoR doesn't, as far as I know, have a ruleset for them.
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Post by 1D3chan on Sept 5, 2016 21:10:02 GMT -6
Games Workshop has always (or at least for a long time) had a Kill Team with that ruleset - 200 points, must buy full units but then split them up into single models. I always liked it better than HoR but I was the minority. I felt like in HoR you could make a really, really elite super kill team but that's like playing chess where every piece is a queen or bishop instead of having a few good ones and a few pawns. I wonder what actually changed in this new edition of the GW one??
The 200 point limit let armies get 2 troops if you kept it min and 1 fast attack/elite. 2 Squads filled out or 3 Squads if you skimped. You have a few squad leaders/special weapons/heavy weapons and a few grunts
I would like to have 1-2 Exarchs with regular Aspect Warriors as opposed to a team of like 7 Exarchs, which would be brutal.
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Post by Joelercoaster on Sept 5, 2016 22:03:34 GMT -6
I get that, I guess what I mean is more I like the idea of the Last Chancer's type squad as well, where each 'character' has their own style and purpose. Instead of a bunch of grunts plus "the guy with the gun", everybody had special rules and abilities.
Mind, I'm not saying everyone should be a space marine compared to some IG conscripts, but the idea of a cherry-picked team that's cherry-picked for a reason (say you have the melta/anti-tank guy, the heavy gunner, the sniper, the sneaky/stealth CC specialist, and the commanding leader, etc)... just seems cool to me and a little more cinematic.
I'll have to try to dig out the rules I'm thinking of, I think I have them in one of the old chapter approved, along with the Last Chancers rules...
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Post by Deleted on Sept 5, 2016 22:13:01 GMT -6
I get that, I guess what I mean is more I like the idea of the Last Chancer's type squad as well, where each 'character' has their own style and purpose. Instead of a bunch of grunts plus "the guy with the gun", everybody had special rules and abilities. Mind, I'm not saying everyone should be a space marine compared to some IG conscripts, but the idea of a cherry-picked team that's cherry-picked for a reason (say you have the melta/anti-tank guy, the heavy gunner, the sniper, the sneaky/stealth CC specialist, and the commanding leader, etc)... just seems cool to me and a little more cinematic. I'll have to try to dig out the rules I'm thinking of, I think I have them in one of the old chapter approved, along with the Last Chancers rules... I know its been said before, but, that is basically HoR. Each character can purchase their equipment, and in some cases, rules separately. Additionally, they do have rules for Eldar Corsairs. Along with the Adeptus Arbites, Last Chancers, Assassins, Squats, Rogue Traders, Genestealer Cults, and Grot Rebels (Gorka Morka anyone?). HoR is IMO the best 40k themed Skirmish game you'll find, any version of Kill Team produced by GW will rely on the core 40k rules and codexes which just don't scale down in size well.
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Post by Nick P on Sept 6, 2016 7:28:30 GMT -6
And to your point Joel, I think Tyranids suffer from the GW official kill team rules by the nature of how they're structured. You need synapse, so you're either taking a warrior unit as your troop or a malanthrope/zoanthrope as your one elite choice, all of which are pretty sub par for this type of game if you ask me.
But I think DE do well - 5 man kab squad with a special weapon of your choice, add in some incubi, or some grots, or some scourges or reavers, maybe even a venom, etc. They're a lot more flexible and can give you a similar level of "specialized" wargear to the HoR rules.
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Post by Joelercoaster on Sept 6, 2016 8:50:18 GMT -6
Agreed, Nids always seemed to suffer from these skirmish-level games, but that's due to core issues with the codex that just shine at small levels (aka, on the nose with Synapse requirements).
Scourges could be very interesting, as you can still take 4 special weapons of different types, so you can (sort of) have your "specialists" in terms of what guns they bring.
And *gasp* Will, they did Corsairs already? MMmmm I am intrigued. Mostly because I (finally) actively want to play an army again.
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Post by Eric formerly Eric on Sept 6, 2016 8:52:24 GMT -6
In the one kill team game I played, I just asked my opponent if we could waive Synapse/IB as a mission special rule. 12" synapse bubbles just don't work in 200 point games with individual models spreading out all over the board. (Granted, I would just take lictors and stealers, which are L10 anyway)
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Post by Joelercoaster on Sept 6, 2016 9:07:39 GMT -6
Aye, that's one of the typical responses. Either you have one/two expensive/fragile Synapse creatures (and a kill team that can only extend 12") or you take Stealers, which are obvsies the best unit in the game.
In fairness, on an individual level Overwatch is largely moot, although 'stealers (very sadly) have some other problems that can be difficult to overcome. Also in fairness, in small games like this rules like Infiltrate can really start to get dirty-useful... so... you know, it's possible that in this context that's the answer. And don't forget that, despite Ld 10, Lictors *are* still testing for IB (something I always, ALWAYS thought strange for a vanguard organism that operates years ahead of the main fleet)
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